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Post by Stormrider on Jan 20, 2009 18:45:21 GMT -6
From: Storrmrider (Original Message) Sent: 6/23/2003 11:03 PM Departure at the Grey Havens by Darrell Sweet Why did Frodo change the words to the old "walking song"? Was Frodo trying to tell Sam gently of his departure? Were the new words a "password" for the Elves to recognize so that they could respond back? Bilbo is with the company of Elves and he has been granted passage on the ship to Valinor. Arwen had given Frodo her "passage" on the ship but having given up her Elven Life did she have the authority to do this? Could ANY Elf, for that matter, have the authority to do this? The ability to go to Valinor came from the Valar and Eru, I thought. If so, which godly entity granted the right of passage to the Ring-bearers?
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Post by Stormrider on Jan 20, 2009 18:47:12 GMT -6
From: Merlin the mad Sent: 6/24/2003 9:42 PM I am not aware that we have been told at all, who it was that granted the Ring bearers permission to come to Valinor. This is one of those details left unsaid, and adds to the authentic feel of the account. I think the ommission (if it is one) is deliberate. MtM * * * From: Storrmrider Sent: 6/27/2003 7:11 AM This is a continuation of what I added to the "Personal Sacrifice" discussion. The information was found in Letter #246 to Mrs. Eileen Elgar written in Sept. 1963. This letter explained that Frodo may have been placed in a sacrificial position to carry out a task beyond his capabilities. But because he failed to destroy the Ring in the end, his failure was forgiven because of his moral reasons for setting out and also his compassion and mercy in dealing with Gollum. However, this letter goes on to explain that Frodo was restored to sanity and peace (immediately after the Ring's destruction as Sam and Frodo stood on top of Mount Doom as Mordor fell all around them). But then he thought he had given his life in sacrifice; he expected to die very soon. But he did not, and one can observe the disquiet growing in him. Arwen was the first to observe the sign, and gave him her jewel for comfort, and thought of a way of healing him.* * There is a footnote about this: She could not of course just transfer her ticket on the boat like that! For any except those of Elvish race 'sailing West' was not permitted, and any exception required 'authority', and she was not in direct communication with the Valar, expecially not since her choice to become 'mortal'. What is meant is that it was Arwen who first thought of sending Frodo into the West, and put in a plea for him to Gandalf (direct or throught Galadriel, or both), and she used her own renunciation of the right to go West as an argument.....No doubt it was Gandalf who was the authority that accepted her plea. The Appendices show clearly that he was an emissary of the Valar, and virtually their plenipotentiary in accomplishing the plan against Sauron. He was also in special accord with Círadan the Ship-master, who had surrendered to him his ring and so placed himself under Gandalf's command. Since Gandalf himself went on the Ship there would be so to speak no trouble either at embarking or at the landing. This letter also states that Bilbo went also as a completion of the plan because of Gandalf who had a great affection for Bilbo. It was necessary for Bilbo to be with Frodo for Frodo's sake since he was the hobbit that Frodo most loved. Also Bilbo had to erase the marks left on his soul by possession of the Ring, too: such as a trace of pride and personal possessiveness. Further in this letter it goes on to say: It is clear, of course, that the plan had actually been made and concerted before Arwen spoke. Stormrider
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