|
Post by Andorinha on Feb 24, 2009 23:18:43 GMT -6
Almost all of Tolkien's characters have names in various languages that could be translated into english: Samwise = "Half-wise," Elrond = "Star-dome," Elros = "Star-foam," etc.
It might be both informative and "fun" to start compiling a list of verifiable name-translations. Faramir, and Boromir, must have related meanings, "mir" = "jewel" -- but whot's a "Fara," or a Boro"? There is a star called Borgil, does that have the same "bor" root as Boromir? Even the Orc names must have had a "meaning" translatable into english...
|
|
|
Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Feb 25, 2009 13:50:11 GMT -6
I remember a few.
Elladan - Man of Stars Elbereth - Star-queen Elendil - Elf-friend Elessar - Elfstone Eru - The One Legolas - Greenleaf Morgoth - Black Enemy Thingol - Grey-cloak
There are a bunch in the index of The Silmarillion and others could probably be found on Wikipedia or the Encyclopedia of Arda if anyone wants to look them up.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Feb 26, 2009 7:04:05 GMT -6
Uilos (Sindarin), Oiolossë (Quenya "ever-snow-white" and also the Mountain of Manwë), Alfirin (another Elvish name), Simbelmynë (Rohirric), Evermind - the white star flowers that know no season and bloom always. These are the flowers that grow upon the burial mounds of the Kings of Rohan. Tuor saw these flowers at the The Gate of Silver as he approached Gondolin
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Feb 26, 2009 21:25:39 GMT -6
Thanks, Freddie and Stormrider!
I managed to track down Boromir and Faramir in what seems a reputable source, Ruth S. Noel The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-earth.
Bor = "hand" so Boromir = "Hand-jewel" or "Jeweled-hand," hmmm, reminds me of Ancient Mayan Pacal = "Hand-shield"
Far = "hunter" so Faramir = "Jeweled-hunter," so maybe in an attributive sense this means Faramir was a "gem of an outdoorsman?"
Gor = "dread," "horror" or "horrible" in the Black Tongue, so if we can find "bag" in that language, we will know the name of one of the main Orcs in the LotR narrative.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Feb 27, 2009 6:41:56 GMT -6
The link that was started by McDLT on the "Tolkien Languages and Links" thread on this language forum has the Ardalambion site link created by Helge Kåre Fauskanger which includes Orcish or Black Speech folk.uib.no/hnohf/orkish.htm. I went there to see what the definition of "bag" was and found this: bagronk (DBS) "cesspool", possibly bag+ronk "cess+pool" There is also a link folk.uib.no/hnohf/blackspeech.htm to a second opinion of the Black Speech by Craig Daniel which give us this information: *bag - dung *ronk - pit bagronk - dung-pitAndorinha posted this: Gor = "dread," "horror" or "horrible" in the Black Tongue, so if we can find "bag" in that language, we will know the name of one of the main Orcs in the LotR narrative. Gorbag = dread cess, horror cess, horrible cess, dread dung, horror dung, horrible dung
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Feb 28, 2009 9:24:45 GMT -6
RE Stormrider's: "Gorbag = dread cess, horror cess, horrible cess, dread dung, horror dung, horrible dung"
LOL!!! "Hullo, this is Mr. 'Dread-cess,' his wife and all the little Cesses will be along shortly."
Now I wonder if JRRT had precognition of "Monty Python?"
Thanks fer the URLs, using 'em now!
|
|
|
Post by Androga Erindalant on Mar 2, 2009 3:20:55 GMT -6
At least half of all those names Tolkien formed must have had a meaning in one of his languages. Might be handy if all the names we collect are edited alphabetically into the first post, so we can find them easily back.
A name I'll never forget: Mithrandir - Grey Wanderer, another name of Gandalf, the Grey. (Sindarin)
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Feb 5, 2011 13:29:15 GMT -6
King Theoden of Rohan, who falls defending Minas Tirith, was known in full as Theoden Ednew. The famous English scholar Bosworth defined Theoden as relating "to the Old English masculine noun 'theoden es,' the chief of a 'theod' (a nation, people) [and therefore] a prince, a king. Cognates include Old Saxon 'thiodan' and Icelandic 'thjodhann.'"
The second, descriptive part of his name, Ednew, is derived from Old English ed-niowe, "to recover, renew." So I guess we would translate it as People-leader, the renewed. The renewal comes from the action of Gandalf when Theoden was renewed in hiss physical and mental health and "recovered" from his depression. Having renewed his kingly dignity, Theoden was able to lead his people in their heroic opposition to both Saruman and Sauron.
|
|
|
Post by fanuidhol on Feb 5, 2011 19:28:31 GMT -6
If I remember correctly, all of the Kings of Rohan had names that meant Leader, King, Prince, etc. in Old English. They were all King King. That is except for Eorl (who was a "nobleman" before he became king of Rohan.) And Bree means "hill" according to Tolkien, but, I don't remember which language. So, Bree Hill is Hill Hill. Fan
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Feb 7, 2011 9:25:43 GMT -6
Hi ya, Fan!
LOL, "King-king." That does become a bit silly. Yeah, I recall "Bree Hill" = "Hill Hill." Down here we a similar situation with a volcanic neck formation called Picacho Peak. Of course Picacho is simply the spanish way of saying "peak," hence "Peak-Peak."
Wonder if JRRT was doing this reduplication on purpose? With Bree Hill I could see him trying to show us that two different languages were involved, Hobbitish westron, and then the old Men of Bree whose language may have been akin to Dunlendish? Both groups were calling the settlement "Hill" but the hobbits, not knowing Bree already meant hill, added their own designation after the word Bree?
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Feb 11, 2011 19:41:46 GMT -6
Edoras, the chief hold and township of Rohan, the seat of the kings of the Mark, is taken directly from the Old English eoderas, and carries the simple meaning of "dwelling," or "precinct," in the sense that a precinct "is a district marked out for governmental or administrative purposes..."
I am beginning to notice, so far with words of the Rohirric language, that they seem to have rather simple, uncomplicated root meanings? The capital 'precinct" of Gondor is Minas Anor, renamed Minas Tirith, "tower of the Sun," or the "tower of Guard/ Watching," fairly complex etymologies compared to the names from Rohan? Is Tolkien doing this deliberately, trying to show the peoples and culture of Rohan as being more "straight forward" and less complicated/ showy/ elaborate than the older, "more civilized" Numenorean derived culture of Gondor?
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Feb 12, 2011 20:26:18 GMT -6
Andorinha, I think you hit the nail on the head with the Old English words used for the Rohirrim to be exactly what they mean! I like the fact that the Rohirrim are simple and down to earth. That is one of the reasons I like them so much.
I can see myself naming my barn, bæren, or the Town of Marengo, Burgstede which is simply "town"
Tolkien made good use of his knowledge of different words from different dialects and times. I believe he did that with definate purpose in his masterpiece of Middle-earth. Each word he used from another language was chosen to define specific peoples and their cultures.
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Feb 13, 2011 14:10:59 GMT -6
Re Stormrider's: "Tolkien made good use of his knowledge of different words from different dialects and times. I believe he did that with definite purpose in his masterpiece of Middle-earth. Each word he used from another language was chosen to define specific peoples and their cultures."
Absolutely, he really did have the knack of creating appropriate "foreign" vocabularies suited to the characteristics of the "race"/ people he was focusing on.
In looking at the "giants" topic, I found in passing that the name "Gram" was used in the Norse sagas for the sword of Sigurd. Gram, in Old Norse = Troll. In LOTR, Tolkien does not use this as a weapon name, but does have a Mount Gram, as the capital center of the Orcs of the North. Another Orc center is Mount Gundabad, I have not yet found an etymology for this one.
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Apr 20, 2011 10:21:08 GMT -6
A bit of a "puzzler" here: "lintips." Does anyone have a definition (who , or what) the lintips are in Tolkien's legendarium?
|
|
|
Post by fanuidhol on Apr 20, 2011 18:50:32 GMT -6
Lintips can be found in the poem "Once Upon a Time" published in 1965. It was published in a book called Winter's Tales for Children, edited by Christine Hillier. The poem may be found online. I'm not sure of copyright infringement so will not post it.
On pg 689, in JRR Tolkien Companion and Guide Vol II by Hammond and Scull, they wrote that no one has come up with an explanation for lintips.
If Tom doesn't know what they are...how do you expect us to know? LOL
|
|