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Post by Stormrider on Mar 21, 2010 7:30:45 GMT -6
I was reading an action adventure book based on Biblical ideas titled The Illumination by Jill Gregory and Karen Tintori. It is about the Light of God from the Creation entrapped in a jewel with the ancient Evil Eye symbol on it. While reading this book, the heroine and hero of the story visit some Rabbis in Rome and the Rabbis mention JRR Tolkien's books!
This Light from the book I am reading is the Light from Genesis 1:1 - 1:5
The Rabbis also iterated that the sun, moon, and stars were not created until the fourth day Genisis 1:14 - 1:19. In this book, the Light in the Evil Eye pendant was the Light of God's Power to create the universe. Many factions in this book were trying to get their hands on this power for good and evil--new power sources and powerful weapons.
Anyway The Silmarillion was mentioned by the Rabbis in this book. The Rabbis said Tolkien was a Talmudic Scholar because he was a devout Catholic who was facinated by biblical and cultural myths and legends. The Rabbis stated that JRRT must have come across the Jewish legends of the tzohar (which is the name of this light in this book I'm reading).
Oh dear! I have run out of time and have to go somewhere with one of my daughters. I will be back to continue this post.
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Post by Stormrider on Mar 22, 2010 6:36:09 GMT -6
The Rabbi and Father(sorry, they both were not Rabbis) say that the tzohar was mentioned only once in the Bible. That was in Genesis when God tells Noah to hang the tzohar in the ark. Now I need to go see if I can find that Biblical passage.
They speak of legend then...(this may be were the fiction comes into this book unless I can find actual passages in the Bible), that God took the tzohar away from Adam and Eve after they sinned and that was the thing they missed the most about paradise. God took pity on them and took a fragment of the first light and encased it in a crystal to carry out into the world.
Legend then told of the tzohar lighting the Ark because it was passed down from his father after Adam passed it down over the generations. But the tzohar fell out of the Ark and sunk into an underground cave until the floodwaters receded and the cave was no longer below sea level.
The Rabbi and Father mention that JRRT wrote about a light created before the sun--a primordial light which filled the earth and later was concealed inside three gems. Then they point out that like the tzohar, the Silmarils were also lost--one in the sea, one in lava, and the third was set in the sky as a brilliant star--the Star of Earendil--the light reflected in Galadriel's mirror. (OK they skipped all the history of the Star of Earendil--after all, this was not JRRT's story). Then they speak of the vial that Galadriel gave Frodo that would shine bright when darkness was upon him.
to be continued...I have to go to work now...there are more legends involved.
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Post by Stormrider on Mar 23, 2010 6:35:55 GMT -6
I did not find any reference to the tzohar in my copy of the Bible. The Rabbi and Father speak of Jewish legends and the Talmud. I wonder if there is any reference in the Talmud?
Anyway...the book says that Abraham found the tzohar as a child and he wore it around his neck. He passed it down to his son, Isaac, who passed it down to Jacob, who passed it down to Joseph.
The book says that the tzohar also has powers of divination which was not realized until Joseph's brothers threw him into the well and it began to glow and keep the vermin away from him. Joseph was also able to interpret the Pharaoh's dreams later on. Moses reclaimed the tzohar from Joseph;s burial tomb and placed it in the Ark of the Covenant.
The Father states that his expertise is with the Babylonian Talmud. Is this a different Talmud or a made up reference for this particular book that I am reading?
Anyway they go on to state the light hangs above the bimah (altar) in every Jewish sanctuary in every synagogue in the world and hangs before the tabernacle on the altar of every Catholic Church--the Eternal Light. These lights are a rememberance of the actual tzohar which only hung in the First Temple in Jerusalem.
To be continued....off to work again.
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Post by Andorinha on Mar 23, 2010 10:28:45 GMT -6
Interesting... Apparently there is still a great discussion going on considering just what tzohar means, see www.kolel.org/pages/5767/noah.htmlAccording to this article the word tzohar is found only once in the Bible, in the tale of Noah, but usualy translated as "window," "roof," "skylight," "jewel" etc, depending upon the english language translation.
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Post by Stormrider on Mar 23, 2010 16:58:19 GMT -6
Thanks for the link. Hmmm...God tells Noah to build a tzohar and by the other comments on the definitions, it doesn't sound like anything that is God created.
My Bible is a modern language Bible and I was actually looking for the word tzohar--verse 16 according to your link. My Bible says "Make a roof for it and finish the ark to within 18 inches of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle, and upper decks." So my Bible translates it as "door."Well, that really puts a twist on the meaning of tzohar and how it is used in The Illumination!
Although your link seems to be putting some importance on the "light" part of the word tzohar--as in making something so that light can get in, or to make a light.
Anyway, in The Illumination as a spiritual light of power to cause the creation and the references to The Silmarils was pretty cool. I kind of like the parallel. I imagine there was a burst of Godly power when God created everything in the beginning! I can see how light with some kind of power charge to it would make for a good story!
And Tolkien picked up on the same concept for The Silmarils and he also had the lamps made and the two trees for light.
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Post by Andorinha on Mar 24, 2010 10:49:30 GMT -6
RE: "God tells Noah to build a tzohar and by the other comments on the definitions, it doesn't sound like anything that is God created."
Yeah, both Silmaril and tzohar seem to be "man-made."
Hmmm, does light itself in the Bible have a creative function the way Tolkien's Flame Imperishable seems to be the actual creative medium, placed at the heart of all living creation? I can't remember if the biblical light is anything other than just a side effect of the creative process? For Tolkien the Secret Flame / Imperishable Flame seems itself to be the very stuff of creation.
The Silmarils were bits of the Light of the Two Trees held permanently in some sort of transparent casing material, and if we allow the tzohar to be a light source in a jewel (rather than door or window), it sounds close to the Silmarils in form.
But were the Silmarils and the tzohar ever used as mechanisms of creation themselves? Now that I think on it, the Silmarils, which contain the Tree Lights, are not directly stated to be part of the Flame Imperishable are they? I don't recall the Silmarils ever being used to "create" anything. Likewise, in the Bible, does the tzohar ever figure as a tool of creation, does Noah ever use it to enthuse life into anything?
Both Jehovah and Iluvatar seem to be jealous guardians of the power to create, to enliven things, Morgoth tries always to find the Imperishable Flame hoping it will allow him to truly create new and original things on his own, but he never finds it. Nor, do I think that any Biblical figure armed with the tzohar (as jewel-light source) ever was able to "create." So maybe the connection between the first light of Genesis and the tzohar of Noah is just meant to be a figurative, symbolical one?
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Post by Stormrider on Mar 24, 2010 22:25:26 GMT -6
So in the Bible, it mentions the light in the beginning and that the sun, moon, and stars were created on the 4th day. The word tzohar was not used in that verse, but the authoresses inferred that the powerful light from the beginning was the light encased in the crystal that was encased in the evil eye jewel. The verse about Noah and the Ark did not say anything about a power from the light.
The creative power of the tzohar in The Illumination must have been the stretch of the imagination and creation of the fictitious storyline. The Authoresses must have honed in on the one use of that word in the Bible. Since there was speculation about its meaning and no way to really define it since there was only one sentence that used it, they embellished its magnificance. Funny that link you gave didn't say anything about tzohar being found in any other writings. You would think it would be a common word if used the way they were speculating it meant. But then that is why the authoresses made it into a special power source for their book--that stretch of the imagination.
Now that you mention the Imperishable Flame, that does seem like more of a creative light force than the Silmarils would have been. But the music of the Ainur was what did the creating, wasn't it? The Imperishable Flame was something that Ilúvatar had secretly stashed away somewhere, if I remember correctly. But it seems like it had power to it--my memory is foggy on this.
Could Ilúvatar have provided some way for the Imperishable Flame to be instilled the Two Trees somehow? But if the Imperishable Flame was stashed away for safe keeping, why would Ilúvatar infuse some of that into the Two Trees?
Galadriel also gave Frodo the vial with the light of the Silmarils in it--another transparent casing material. But if the light of the Silmarils was a power source to begin with *which we haven't established yet* then having the Silmaril end up in the sky seems appropriate. But the Silmarils gave off light but do not seem to have any special power force that would harness energy for other uses.
However, the tzohar in my other book was wanted by several countries so they could harness the power for energy--lighting, heat, etc.--and to make powerful destructive weapons.
Looks like I need some research on the Silmarils, Earendil and his star, Galadriel's vial, and the Imperishable Flame. I'll Be back soon.
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Post by Andorinha on Mar 27, 2010 18:46:30 GMT -6
A complex matter indeed! As I recall even Tolkien was not quite sure how he wanted to use the Imperishable Flame, giving us three distinct patterns: 1. The IF was part of Eru himself, and stayed with him; 2. The IF was partable, and some of it went into each separate created thing; 3. the IF was placed in the heart of Ea, the created Universe, and there it burns to keep the Universe living.
Number 2 would allow the Light of the Two Trees to be part of the IF, and therefore the Silmarils, derived from the Two Trees would also be part of the IF? Then, it sounds like Gregory and Tintori would be using the Tzohar as a Silmaril-like jewel of light partaking of the essence of the first light of Biblical creation?
Yeah, need to re-read some stuff here, LOL!
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