Maiar, Istari and Wizards

[Desi Baggins]

Stormrider and I were discussing maiar and wizards. What we have come to is that all wizards are or were maiar, but are all maiar wizards? What I understand is that the words Istari and Wizard can be used interchangeably because in Unfinished Tales index when I looked up wizard it said to see Istari.

Some definitions I found are:
Maiar- Ainur of lessor degree than the Valar

Istari- The Maiar who were sent from Aman in the Third Age to resist Sauron; Sindarin Ithryn; Translated Wizards

Wizard- Someone who is dazzlingly skilled in any field, one who practices magic or sorcery.

Sorcery- The belief in magical spells that harness occult forces or evil spirits to produce unnatural effects in the world (Unnatural- not in accordance with or determined by nature; contrary to nature; Occult- supernatural forces and events and beings collectively)

[Stormrider]

I have been thinking about this and I think that all Maiar have the same abilities as the Istari. But do the Maiar have more skills than the Istari? Therefore, the Istari would be lesser Maiar.

In your definitions, you said that Istari were those Maiar that were sent from Aman to resist Sauron in the Third Age. So would Istari sent on other missions have a different name designating their mission?

Did the Istari gain their knowledge and skills from the Maiar (and/or Valar)?

[Fangorn]

An interesting thing to note is that the Maiar that were sent to ME to challenge Sauron, could not do so out-right as Maiar to Maiar. They were in essence sent to influence the people's of ME to resist him. It even appears that they had limited recall of their past lives as Maiar in the west. Gandalf seemed to recall his old name, and seemed cognizant of his mission, but little else. Once he was reborn as White, even his Gray past seemed to get hazy.

I think that if Tolkien had been too clear on the nature and mission of the Istari, it would have taken away from the mystery and appeal of the order.

[Androga Erindalant]

From what I have read in Unfinished Tales (Part 4, II, the Istari) I have understand that there could have been Wizards in later times, that didn't belong to the Istari.

From Unfinished Tales, Part 4, II, the Istari

Wizard is a translation of Quenya istar (Sindarin ithron): one of the members of an "order" (as they call it), claiming to possess, and exhibiting, eminent knowledge of the history and nature the World. The translation (through suitable in its relation to "wise" and other ancient words of knowing, similar to that of istar in Quenya) is not perhaps happy, since Heren Istarion or "Order of Wizards" was quite distinct from "wizards" and "magicians" of later legend; they belonged solely to the Third Age and then departed, and none save maybe Elrond, Círdan and Galadriel discovered of what kind they were or whence they came.

So the word 'Istari' only points to the five that have arrived in the Grey Havens around the end of the first millenium of the 3rd Age. But Tolkien left space for other possible wizards (I think he called them Gollor somewhere in this part), but they weren't Istar, and most likely not even Maiar.

All Istari indeed were Maiar, but they were dressed in the guise of old men. They were put in this to temper them a little in power. They were sustained to their bodies and by that aged slowly and could die, yet their spirit remained that of the Maiar. They weren't allowed to fight Sauron directly, because of disastrous effects that could have to the world, when the Maiar's full powers would be unleashed. In the Silmarillion is told they helped the Valar in creating the world (I believe this is told in Sil; Ch. 1), so they are likely to bring down a mountain.
Once again a lot of this info came from UT, part 4, II Istari

Not all Maiar were Istari. Of all the Maiar only 5 were sent east to Middle-earth, and from the Silmarillion we learn there a lot more Maiar than just 5.

[Desi Baggins]

Great explanation Orgulas, it answered my question perfectly. I better get going and finishing up reading UT!

[Fangorn]

Nice,,,Orgulas........hope to see this info on your Wizard Clan pages.....

[Androga Erindalant]

The info was gladly given. I have been doing some research on wizards and Istari a while ago. Don't worry Fangorn. I am intending to post something similar and even a lot more in the Wizard Clan.

[Androga Erindalant]

Here's more on the Istari, a small essay I wrote. I hope this explains it all.

Around the end of the first millenium of the Third Age the Istari arrived at the Grey Havens by ship. Círdan the Sailor witnessed their arrival, and was one of the few who knew what kind they were and where they came from. They appeared as old men, who only grew old slowly with the passage of the centuries. In the beginning they wandered around on Middle-Earth, gaining knowledge of all that dwelt in it, and revealed nothing of their powers and purposes, until the shadow of Sauron started growing again.

They came from the West over the Sea, and were sent by the Valar, who still cared for the fate of Middle-Earth. They were Maiar, servants of the Valar that lived for long in Aman, but had real bodies. Because of their noble spirits they did not die, but were bound to the needs of their bodies. They aged, though very slowly, and they could feel hunger, pain and even fear. The Istari were sent to counter the growing powers of Sauron, who also was Maiar of kind, but were forbidden to reveal their majesty and to match their devine powers against his. Nor they were allowed to oppress the peoples of Middle-Earth, but to unite all in love and understanding. Each of the Istari had different powers and knowledge and they were allowed to act freely to do what they could in achieving their goal. They were not commanded, nor were they supposed to work together.

Five Istari appeared in the North. In Unfinished Tales is mentioned the actual size of their order was unknown, but these five were the only known in the West, where there was most hope (because of the remnants of the Eldar and Dúnedain who dwelt there). The first one who came was dressed in white, and he had great skill in work of hands. He was seen as the head of the Order, and was named Cúrunir by the Elves and Saruman by Men. Two clad in blue followed him, but little is known of them, since they disappeared in the East. Not even their names were known in the West, and simply were referred to as Ithryn Luin, the Blue Wizards. The fourth one was clad in earthly brown. He was called Radagast and had great knowledge of the beasts and birds of Middle-Earth. The last one was dressed in grey and leaned on a staff. He seemed the least of them, the less tall and most aged. He was named Mithrandir, the Grey Pelgrim, since he had no home and ever travelled around in the Westlands. By the northern men he was known as Gandalf.

The Istari were all Maiar serving under the greater Valar, but it is wrong to assume they had the same rank within their order. Saruman was the highest of the Istari (this is said by Gandalf himself in The Fellowship of the Ring). Gandalf is evidently the next in the order, and in Lord of the Rings he takes over the first place, when he becomes the new White Wizard. Radagast is presented as one less powerful and wise, and about the Blue Istari nothing is said in Tolkien’s works.

Istari is actually a plural term in Quenya and means approximately Wizards or Wise Ones. More correctly the translation should be “Friend of an order with emminent knowledge on the history and nature of the Earth.” Its singular form is Istar, while Heren Istarion means “order of the Wizards.” The Quenya terms only refer to the five Maiar that appeared in the West however. It does not apply for a more general use of “wizard”, “magician” or any people who perform magic. Another name for the Istari is Ithryn (singular Ithron), which is the Sindarin equivalent for Wizard.

[Stormrider]

"Some believe it is only great power that can hold evil in check. But that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."

~ Gandalf

[Andorinha]

I like that quote -- forgot about it. Need to review "Old Gandalf," I think.

[Stormrider]

It's a great quote and it just struck me that I should post it here.

[Andorinha]

Digging around a bit for Istari information, found this very interesting article on Radagast:

dc.swosu.edu/mythlore/vol26/iss1/8/

I agree with some of his points, disagree with others.

[Stormrider]

I always wished there was a bit more of Radagast in JRRT's works. I was surprised by PJ's addition in his movies. Especially how odd and quirky he made him.

I just always felt Radagast preferred ME and his animals and birds and just stayed with them rather than return back to Valinor. But it seems the Elves made more trips back, some of them staying in ME a bit longer after The One Ring's destruction. Who knows, perhaps Radagast returned later with them.