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Post by Desi Baggins on Jan 24, 2005 9:35:11 GMT -6
How did the Elvenking react to the news of the dwarves?
When we first meet the Elvenking and Mirkwood elves they seem mysterious and rude (though the dwarves were rude back), did your view of the Elvenking and Mirkwood elves change after seeing how they helped the people of Lake-town?
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Post by Andorinha on Jan 28, 2005 1:17:42 GMT -6
Rude-crude, inhospitable, and voracious -- always!
As I have achieved the lofty status of "Dwarf" myself, I'll stand as their advocate in this matter:
I do not like the Wood Elves, and I do not like their king. Bah! A nasty, secretive, shabby folk who haunt the dark forests, dwell like beasts in caves, and toss respectable Dwarves into pits -- simply because they were lost, cold, and starving.
The rules of hospitality were held sacred in those ancient times, and a good king would never turn decent beggars unassisted from his realm. Bilbo knew at least this much, and he did his best to serve the Dwarves when they showed up unannounced on his doorstep. Elrond met the Company with open friendship, with sage counsels, and many restorative feasts. The Eagles took the Dwarves to their homes, and provided food for all. Even the irrascible, solitary Beorn fed them, and let them ride his ponies to the borders of his land. The Lake Men take the bedraggled, water-stained, starving Dwarves into their town and feast them royally (fulfilling the duties of hospitality and hoping, no doubt, to find allies who might assist them in throwing off the Wood Elves' yoke!).
Only the Wood Elves refuse to aid the begging Dwarves, and actually harmed them significantly by "luring" them off the magic path into the grasping chelae of the spiders! If the "lucky number" Hobbit had not been there to save them, all the Dwarves but Thorin would have been sucked dry by the Attercops.
Upon hearing that the Lonely Mountain was no longer a Dragon-guarded place of peril, they muster themselves into a raiding/ looting party and start off to pillage the Halls of Thror. Despicable! There was no Elven treasure stored there by Smaug, only the wealth of the Dwarves and the Men of Dale, so the Elvish King was nothing more than a maurauder, a burglar writ large himself.
Of course when he found that the Men of Laketown were homeless now, he took a few days off (believing no one else was around to snatch up the Dragon loot) to stabilize them on the shore. They were, after all, part of the economic system of his realm, the intermediaries in his wider trade nets with the non-forest world. By securing Laketown's continued existence, he safeguarded the veins of trade upon which his own people's rich life depended. Of course his propagandists would make the most of this "humanitarian" aid while downplaying its primary, materialistic foundation.
The following sentence shows that the Elvish aid "given" to the Men came at a heavy price: "Their [the Elves] welcome [to Laketown] was good, as may be expected, and the men and their master were ready to make any bargain for the future in return for the Elvenking's aid." emphasis mine (The Hobbit, BB PB, 1980 ed, p. 242)
Just what sort of a "bargain" did this ungracious Elven King force upon the poor shattered remnants of the Lake Folk? Did it include the right to cull the first born children of Men? Were bonds of servitude forged then? Did the Lake Men have to swear that they and their descendents would eat no other breakfast cereals and cookie treats save those made by the Keeblers!? Some aid!
Then, having recruited even more troops from among the Men of the Lake, the Elven King forced them all to march into the desolate lands to loot the Dwarven treasuries. How much of this wealth would the Elves have shared with the Men, had they found the Dwarves eaten and the treasures available for easy plundering? Was this part of their "bargain" with the hapless Men? "We Elves get all the treasure, and then we'll help you to rebuild." Shameful!
Only the intervention of the kindly Goblins and their trusty Wargs, could force the rapacious Elves to reconsider this "bargain" and accept a more equitable re-distribution of the wealth. By "luck" alone, and the machinations of the Elvish-leaning Bilbo, were the guiles and wiles of the Elves defeated, and a happier ending to this tale constructed.
Wood Elves -- BAH!
Now, when I finally attain some Elvish status here at TR as a poster, then I'll drop back to this thread, and blast them "grasping Dwarves!"
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Post by Stormrider on Oct 9, 2012 6:32:10 GMT -6
Well, said, Andorinha. But alas, you now have ELF STATUS and it is time to blast the Dwarves! Kidding aside, I agree with everything you said above. Those Wood Elves are very selfish, greedy, and helpful only when they get something out of it. No wonder Gimli had trouble with Legolas when they met at Elrond's Rivendel in FOTR. I wonder what Legolas (who we all have come to love in FOTR) will be like in PJ's Hobbit movies!
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Post by Andorinha on Oct 9, 2012 16:44:41 GMT -6
LOL! I had forgotten this line, hmm, I'm not sure I can overcome my own prejudices sufficiently to say anything nice about the Wood Elves. Have to think on this a bit...
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Post by Stormrider on Oct 10, 2012 6:18:14 GMT -6
You make a pretty darn good case against the Elves so it should be quite a challenge to do a reverse post against the Dwarves. But the Dwarves aren't the most "squeeky clean" group either.
They were warned by both Gandalf and Beorn not to stray off the main path and that was the start of their trouble. Granted, hunger, thirst, and being lost are good reasons to throw all caution to the wind, but it certainly did not help them.
I know Thorin wanted to keep his Quest a secret, but I think if he had been truthful and on the up-and-up with the Elven King, it would have done wonders for their case. Being so secretive about WHY they were in the woods in the first place triggered the suspicion of the Elves, but I really don't understand why the Elves threw them all in the dungeons. After all, the Dwarves were starving, thirsty, and lost and the Elves could see that!
But maybe if Thorin had said they were going to stir up the nasty dragon in The Lonely Mountain, the Elven King would have thrown them all in the dungeon anyway to keep the peace in the land. Messing with dragons is not always a good thing.
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