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Post by Stormrider on Dec 13, 2004 21:32:31 GMT -6
From: Majah 1/20/04
i have been enjoying all your thoughts on the essay...thanks so much for your input! please feel free to comment at any time on any part of what we have been discussing ...but i would like to move on to the next section, ok? let's read the section titled Children and then post your thoughts and comments when you are finished.
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 13, 2004 21:33:15 GMT -6
From: Jerseyshore 1/23/04
Tolkien seems to me to have been a rather unusual child! He cites interests in Botany, Etymology, Astronomy, History and several other rather advanced subjects at the same period as fairy tales. That hardly sounds typical to me, and so I feel a little skeptical of his statements on the appeal of fairy stories to the average child--something I don't think he ever was! I think it's hard to remember what Tolkien is characterizing as fairy stories in this essay. Certainly what we think of as "fairy tales" generally appeal more to children than to adults because they lack credibility and character development. As he says we have to actively suspend disbelief, a conscious action which takes some effort. On the other hand, a well-written story of imagination (such as LOTR) can cause us to lose ourselves in an alternate universe, and not require us to consciously suspend disbelief because we do believe in that place at that time. Thus his definition of fairy story encompasses much more than our usual definition of the term, and certainly can appeal to readers (or listeners) of any age.
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From: Gythia 1/25/04 Children can be interested in "academic" topics without being able to read "academic" level material. As witness all the millions of children who are interested in dinosaurs.
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 13, 2004 21:33:56 GMT -6
From: Majah 1/26/04 JRR WAS an unusal child because he had an interesting start in life and a mother who inspired and encouraged his interests. but i felt he was saying that we can't assume that all children automatically love fairy stories more than they do other subjects. i know as a child Astronomy seemed as magical as Dragons did. (well actually it still does!) i think he is also saying Fairy Stories are not necessarily written just for children? they do seem to accept the boundries (or lack of) of fairy stories more readily than adults. it probably is easier for them to suspend the belief or proof more than adults can? i have always felt that fairy stories weren't really meant for children...especially the older ones. they are cultural fables and stories that are usually frightening and the plots and morals too complicated for children to understand...but it seems kids love to be scared and understand consequences and punishment. i personally think the stories, the cartoons and the movies of today's kids are also geared to appeal as much to the parents...the manic genie in Aladdin played by Robin Williams was hilarious but the 4 year old i saw the movie with just accepted him as a magic genie and it was me rolling in the isle at his comments, jokes and impressions... i may have some more to add on this section but i need to read over it again...
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 13, 2004 21:34:48 GMT -6
From: Sparrow 1/27/04 For that matter, did anyone other then me think the themes in Lilo & Stitch were really adult? I would not want my five year old to watch it! * * * * * From: Merlin The Mad 1/31/04 Don't get me started on TV for kids ! The whole focus of Tolkien's essay (at least up to this point) seems to be on defining (noticing) the differences between kid stuff and adult fare. And he is admitting that most if not all "kid stuff" is crap for anyone of any age. If a myth/faery-tale is good enough for a child it should be good enough for an adult. "Dumbing down" the expectations we have of our children only produces dumb adults (after they grow up), whose enjoyment level doesn't rise often (if ever) above Bay Watch and the Simpsons. (::gag: (I am not sorry that I cannot use more modern examples: it has been so many years since I watched any TV, that I do not even know what is on anymore.) MtM
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 13, 2004 21:35:33 GMT -6
From: Majah 2/1/04 it seems to me we all can see how the professor felt the stories were geared to all and not just children (and of course he wrote his with this is mind) *except i read somewhere he became dissappointed in the Hobbit because it was geared down a little more than his later stories. i am surprised he never did a major overhaul of it. i guess he got too busy with all his other masterpieces? or was that in the works too? and MtM i am ashamed to admit that while i do not watch regular TV, i do find cartoons amusing and entertaining and yes a lot of times moronic and banal but that is part of the entertainment...to see how low they will go? ok there it is out...i am truely hopeless!!! althought there is an excellant one on Public TV called Redwall which is medieval based. it came from a book series and it is very well done. but of course the characters are animals...he he happy morning everyone Majah *my interpretations only...i don't have a specific reference to back it up (i must learn to not let my own opinions take over lol)
you can continue to comment as you want but i guess it is time to move on in the Essay (i realize this may seem slow to many of you, but i am enjoying seeing all your thoughts!)
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