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Post by Vanye on Mar 29, 2005 2:50:19 GMT -6
After I finished reading The Sil I started on Unfinished Tales & now I'm more confused. I have been reading 2-3 versions of the same event, for example: Gandalf & Thorin meeting before the journey to the Lonely Mtn. but some of the stuff really fills in gaps in M-e history like the story of Celeborn & Galadriel, The Black Riders & the Battle of Gladden Fields. There are frequent references to the appendices of LoTR which I have yet to read & which, I am assured, contain more versions of some of these same stories--so guess what I'm reading next? So if any one else has read or is reading UT tell us what you think about it. Vanye
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Post by Desi Baggins on Mar 29, 2005 7:27:43 GMT -6
I have read some of UT, but I have been on hold for at least a year. I'll have to dust it off and start reading it again.......
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Post by Stormrider on Mar 29, 2005 20:49:28 GMT -6
I read UT last Spring/Summer and just skimmed the first part (1st Age) conserning Tuor and Túrin because I wanted to read The Sil over and read these chapters more thoroughly when I got to them in The Sil. Of course, I haven't gotten that far yet in The Sil but I still plan to do that!
I liked reading the section on Númenor (2nd Age)because I did not know anything about it at all. The part on Galadriel and Celeborn was confusing with the different versions.
The Third Age and Part Four were really interesting. I liked these sections the best because many little details were added to the LOTR story from different perspectives.
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Post by Vanye on Apr 9, 2005 18:45:51 GMT -6
Well I've just finished Unfinished Tales & guess what that has led me to? You guessed it--more questions!!! SOOO now i am now reading the appendicies (sp?) in RoTK!! While realizing i should have right after finishing the Triliogy--am now forced to admit to this oversight on my part! HoMe is next! It will last me as a project for the rest of my natural life. I shan't need to wonder what to do w/my time upon waking in the AM anyway! And i fully expect to have even more questions when i have read the final page of volume 12. Since my Mum says that i was born asking questions that shall come as no surprise. When I have had a while to digest it there will probablly be a post or two on the subject of UT . Vanye
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Post by Vanye on Jun 15, 2005 2:11:07 GMT -6
I'm reading Lost Tales I & it is very interesting to see how Tolkien started out writing the legendarium: he was going in a whole different direction on the first draft and of course the names of places & characters started changing right at the very begining too! I found something somewhere (I thought it was on this site) but anyway it's called the Chronological Tolkien Calculator. What it does is to enable your to read all the stories in their proper order. At all those 'gaps' where historical stuff is mentioned & it is assumed that you know what is being reffered to it will cue you to go to the parts of the canon where you can get' the rest of the story'. Any way I'm gonna try it ! It's at Science Fiction Timeline Site. www.chronologly.org/tolkientable/calculator.htmlNow i have one question: how do i get my signature to run across the page so it does not take up so much space??? Vanye P.S. That link does't work but if you Google Chonological Tolkien Calculator you'll get it anyway. Science Fiction Timeline Site is where it is located.
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Post by Androga Erindalant on Apr 3, 2006 13:35:02 GMT -6
I think it has been two years now since I finished UT. I thought it was a very interesting read, and I really should read it again some time soon. The book is going in depth to some tales I already knew. It made me like the tale of Túrin even more. Also, it revealed some of which I only knew vague things. Like the Istari, for instance. Thanks to UT I found great new insights on them, and on wizardy in ME.
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Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Dec 20, 2008 14:12:50 GMT -6
I'm currently reading Unfinished Tales. I had read parts of it over the years but ironically it remained, er, unfinished on my bookshelf. So I am remedying that.
Just finished "Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin." Overall, I liked it but like The Silmarillion, it is very dry and austere and full of melodramatic high fantasy dialogue. For me, JRRT's early stuff is always a bit hard to get through (hence my not finishing the Tales yet). I enjoy the artistry and imagination of it but it's not very accessible or easy reading. It really makes you appreciate what the hobbits added to the stories with their humor and everyman appeal.
In any case, I did like learning more about Tuor himself and getting a picture of what Gondolin was like. I only had the name before from The Hobbit and references in the Sil. I liked the scene with Ulmo. We rarely get a description of what the Valar look like. The multiple gates of various substances as Tuor went further into the Hidden Kingdom were pretty cool imagery. Alas, that's where this version of the story ends. He doesn't get to meet Turgon and Idril doesn't even enter into it.
"Narn I Hin Hurin" is next. I am very curious about this as it will give me a preview of The Children of Hurin (which I haven't bought yet. Didn't seem right to start on this until I finish the Tolkien books I already have).
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 21, 2008 19:42:23 GMT -6
It has been a long time since I read UT. I remember it was easier to read than The Silmarillion and went into much more detail on some of the tales in it.
I liked reading the description of Numenor and the tale of Aldarion and Erendis and the line of Elros. This gave me more of an understanding of the Numenoreans.
Of course, I always like anything about the Rohirrim so I loved Ciron and Eorl.
The rest of the book is about the Quest for the Ring and some of the behind the scenes things that were pretty interesting to me, too. And the Istari and Palantir sections are very informative.
Makes me want to pick up this book again just thinking about it.
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 22, 2008 7:12:29 GMT -6
I liked the scene with Ulmo. We rarely get a description of what the Valar look like. I should find this passage and read this description of Ulmo. I wonder how my watercolor resembles the description! I bet the description has him looking much older than my picture. I only skimmed the first sections of UT because I wanted to read them alongside The Silmarillion but I never went back to do that! Here is my watercolor:
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Post by Vanye on Dec 23, 2008 23:19:36 GMT -6
Storm-I bought the edition of The Sil which is illlustrated by Ted Naismith & he made Ulmo much more fearsome looking than you have made him. On the Chronology of the Silmarillion website John Howe's version of Ulmo is more like yours. Naismith has him standing up & glowering down @ Tuor while Howe shows him kneeling to speak w/Tuor. Your Ulmo looks more like Howe's & I prefer them to the Naismith version. This is one of my favorilte parts of the Sil. I like it even better than the Beren & Luthien story though I rather enjoy the part about the King of Cats & retrieveal of Silmaril. The Fall of Gondolin is also one of my faves. I have the Sil in my TBR(To Be Read) pile but it's below a lot of other stuff which i've never read before. I'm retired now but still don't get enough reading time somehow or another. Vanye 8^)
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 24, 2008 23:13:18 GMT -6
Vanye:
You are right, my Ulmo isn't very fearsome. However, if you angered him while at sea he could have been a very threatening Valar to pit yourself against. In my painting I was not thinking of him as a threat to the Swan ship but more as a benevolent Valar watching over them as they sailed the sea (even though his emergence out of the water caused some huge waves!)
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Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Jan 14, 2009 18:37:31 GMT -6
Awesome picture, Stormrider! Personally, I always pictured Ulmo as having blue skin formed out of the water itself when he manifests in the mortal world. Not sure if Tolkien ever mentions this or if that's my own imagination.
I just finished "Narn I Hin Hurin," the second of the Unfinished Tales. Man, that was depressing! I assume Tolkien was aiming for a story in the style of an ancient Greek tragedy. He's got all the classic themes-- death, despair, incest, prophecies, life as an outcast, etc. It was a good story just a little heavier than I'm used to from the man. I enjoyed learning more about life during the First Age however.
One of these days, I'll have to read The Children of Hurin, the full novel version that Christopher Tolkien released. For now though, it's on to the Second Age!
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Post by Andorinha on Jan 16, 2009 12:48:40 GMT -6
Hullo, Freddie!
Been a while...
A lot of Nan i Hurin was based on the Finnish Epic, Kalevala -- very depressing itself, including the sister-brother incest, talking sword, suicide, etc...
Like you, I have not read the Chris Tolkien version yet, should find a used copy at Amazon and see what changes Chris made.
As I recall, the Second Age is less "mystical-mythical," less symbolic in tone, becomes more "historical?" Here, I think JRRT relied more on classical Graeco-Roman history and the sagas for the tone, if not the events, big change in overall mood, between First and Second Ages, I thought.
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Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Jan 19, 2009 22:10:01 GMT -6
Just finished "Aldarion and Erendis: The Mariner's Wife." Another downer of a tale, though not quite as epically tragic as the "Narn." I found myself taking Erendis' side of the marital dispute until the end when it was revealed why Aldarion was away for so long (the rise of Sauron). This seemed to be just a sad tale where neither of them were completely in the right.
Erendis is an unusual character for Tolkien-- an ultra-feminist with disdain for men. Don't think I've encountered anyone quite like her in his work. She hardened her heart quite a bit over the years and became a little extreme but the way Aldarion treated her, I felt quite a bit of sympathy for her. I felt really bad for their daughter though, who seemed to be royally (no pun intended) screwed up in the end notes.
It was a bit slow towards the beginning but by the end, I had enjoyed this quite a bit. Mostly because it gives us a fuller picture of Numenor. The only full tale set there, as far as I know.
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Post by Andorinha on Jan 20, 2009 4:38:37 GMT -6
Ah, Aldarion and Erendis, long time no read, just a vague memory of tragedy, human despair. I think, while working on salvage of old topics from the archive, I'll follow your lead and re-read that episode. Some of the HOME series, maybe Book of Lost Tales 1, has a partial tale set in Numenor, but it was a separate story of time travellers, abandoned early on. Can't think of any other Numenorean tales until the Akallabeth...
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