HoMe (The Book of Lost Tales 1&2)

[Vanye]

I'm now reading The Book of Lost Tales 1. Believe that I posted about this when i first started reading it. It's taking a long time as there have been some RL problems that took up a lot of reading time, but it is certainly interesting to see how the 'Legendarium' evolved from the first versions Tolkien wrote down while he was in WWI to the versions we read in the Sil. Am getting a lot more familiar w/all of the Valar & their powers & their underlings(the Maiar) getting less confused the more i read. So that's progress! Vanye

[Andorinha]

Concerning "Back Stories" --

Ah, how JRRT suffered. After the unexpected success of his bedtime tale, The Hobbit, his publishers asked him for more. He did not have any more to give them except the vast body of his "back story" mythology, a mismatched set of poems, narratives, and experimental pieces based (to a large degree) upon the sacred literatures of the pagan Nordic folk, the Graeco-Roman traditions, and even (somewhat more loosely and subconsciously) upon concepts derived from his RC faith.

As related in The Letters this material was politely refused, it had no connected stream of plot, and it had too many characters (with few of whom the casual reader could identify). It was a bewildering compendium that was not even consistent within the individual episodes. As Tolkien progressed through his life the tales were constantly being revised and some had four or five versions, none yet "cannonical."

JRRT began to despair, and finally decided that the only rational thing to do would be to start out with The Hobbit, and write a sequel using the same (or similar) techniques of narration, and some of the same characters. He was right, and the success of LotR (a bit late in coming, 1965 instead of with the first publication of 1954-56) showed him what he feared most, the "back story" mythology was unpublishable.

The last years of Tolkien's life, however, would not be spent working up any similar texts as The Hobbit or LotR, instead, he simply now wanted to produce a single version of the mythology, more directly enthused with his Christian faith. JRRT had some serious doubts about the wisdom of even trying to present the "back story," he felt that a great deal of the charm readers found in The Hobbit, and LotR lay precisely in keeping the deep past of Middle-earth secret, remote, mysterious allusions, vague and tantalizing hints.

"I am doubtful myself about the undertaking [to write The Silmarillion]. Part of the attraction of the L.R. is, I think, due to the glimpses of a large history in the background: an attraction like that of viewing far off an unvisited island, or seeing the towers of a distant city gleaming in a sunlit mist. To [actually] go there is to destroy the magic..." Letters p. 333

But his death removed for JRRT the final choice of whether to publish the "back story" or leave the reading public to simply imagine from his hints just what the Elder Days had seen. I think I see JRRT's point here, especially when I cast my ancient mind back to my first reading of LotR and The Hobbit, there was a demand to know more, yet a definite and exhilarating sense of involvement when I started filling in the gaps on my own. Maybe things should have been left there?

But, seeing JRRT's great task of revising the myths unrealized, his son, Christopher Tolkien stepped up to the plate to pinch-hit for his dad. Christopher cut and pasted his way through the corpus, and tried to produce a coherent mythology in 1977, published as The Silmarillion. As the volume was going to press, I remember the great stir among the readers, so many questions might at last find an authoratative solution: "Just who was Bombadil?" "What were the Barrow-wights?" "Was there a furry Mrs. Beorn?" "How did the universe of Ea/ Arda get its start?" "Where did the Elves come from, and what was the saga of their wars against the Darkness?"

I suppose, at that point, 1975 - 1977, public demand was so overwhelming that Christopher really had no choice but to bring out another volume, flawed though it might be, incomplete, and without the familiar stuctures of narrative found in The Hobbit and LotR. As Christopher tells us (BLT-1, p. 4) "When after [JRRT's] death the question arose of publishing 'The Silmarillion' in some form, I attached no importance to this doubt [expressed by JRRT above]." So, in 1971-77 Chris at least felt no major qualms in getting a volume of Middle-earth mythology before the public.

Later, the style of the material, the lack of traditional novel format was still not an issue when Christopher began to feel that maybe he had erred in putting out a "rough-quick" version of the material:

"The choice before me, in respect of 'The Silmarillion', was threefold. I could withhold it indefinitely from publication, on the ground that the work was incomplete and incoherrent between its parts. I could accept the nature of the work as it stood, and, to quote my Foreword to the book, 'attempt to present the diversity of the materials -- to show 'The Silmarillion' as in truth a continuing and evolving creation extending over more than half a century [of JRRT's] writing; ... In the event, I chose the third course, 'to work out a single text, selecting and arranging in such a way as seemed to me to produce the most coherent and internally self-consistent narrative'." (BLT-1, p.6)

Quite soon after The Silmarillon was published in 1971, some high powered literary criticism began to reach Christopher's ears:

"... what, really, is a literary work? Is it what the author intended (or may have intended) it to be, or is it what a later editor makes of it? ... Christopher Tolkien has [at least] helped us in this instance by honestly pointing out that The Silmarillion in the shape that we have it is the invention of the son not the father." (Professor Randel Helms in Tolkien and the Simarils, p. 93)

This criticism stung Christopher, as did a similar statement by Shippey referring to the 1977 Silmarillion as a late version work, "even the latest work of its author [JRRT]." There was a strong fear among the academically inclined of Tolkien's readers that the long hoped for volume, The Silmarillion would tell us more about Christopher as an editor than his father as a writer. In response, Christopher decided to engage himself in the decades long task of presenting bit by bit all of the many versions left by his father, and so we have the HOME series, some 12 volumes if my count is right.

But, I suppose the question still remains, should any form of the backstory have been published at all? Were the doubts of JRRT, concerning the spoiling of the air of mystery about The Hobbit and LotR, correct? As non-professionals, are most of Tolkien's readers (especially the "movie-crowd" -- those who saw the films and never bothered to read the books, before or after)) happier to simply ignore The Silmarillion?

Is just reading the easy narratives of The Hobbit and LotR a sufficient exercize?

[Stormrider]

I have read The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales. I have only used the other HOME series books for research. Although I do have the entire set, I have never actually read through them.

It was difficult enough for me to get through The Sil and that is why I haven't begun to read the rest.

UT wasn't too bad and actually quite interesting when it went into more of the movements of the Black Riders and Aragorn taking Gollum to Mirkwood and the Istari background.

I keep telling myself I will read the rest of the HOME books some day but keep putting it off. I know some of the books go into the original LOTR tale with Aragorn as Trotter the Hobbit. I am not sure I want to really know how Tolkien started out with LOTR since the final published work is superb.

[Andorinha]

My own experience with the HOME volumes parallels your's Stormrider. I've completely read (several times) The Silmarillion, and UT, but never got the sort of "swept-away" feeling that both The Hobbit and LotR gave me. Some of the episodes were beautiful in themselves, but it was like reading a collection of short stories, mixed with "historical" records that could be useful in understanding points made in The Hobbit and LotR, but not really satisfying in themselves.

UT, I agree, had more relevant material for those of us who wanted to look under the surface of the Third Age events, but the rest of the HOME corpus, so far has been mainly of use to me for researching discrete topics of discussion, like "how many troll races were there;" or "was Galadriel older than Cirdan of The Havens..."

Morgoth's Ring, and The Peoples of Middle-earth I have read in full, not because they were riveting dramas in their own right, but rather I read them as I would secondary works on how a favorite author put his masterpieces together and how his values and interpretations changed over time.

Stormrider: "I keep telling myself I will read the rest of the HOME books some day..."

Me too!

[Vanye]

Having all but 2 of the HoMe series I too intend to read them all....eventually! So far have gotten through Lost Tales 2. Tried to start Lays of Beleriand But so far it hasn't grabbed me. Some of the Sil stories were very intriguing w/characters that did not make the final cut. I seem to recall a giant cat & a scary dog that Beren & Luthien had to contend w/while retrieving one of the Silmarils. UT has some good stuff also. My to read list is probably long enough for several lifetimes but I'll keep pluggin away at it!
Vanye

[Andorinha]

Hi Vanye!

RE: The Lays of Beleriand: I was impressed that JRRT even tried to cast his Silmarillion in verse form. I know a lot of the classical English public school curriculum was "poetical" in nature, so you learned how to rhyme, or flunked out! The Lays were some of his early work, so he was perhaps more "into" that form of expression than later generations would be? At any rate, I had to force my way into it, and then it still never "flowed" for me. I never finished it...

I even tried reading the Lays as a sort of chanted effort, like Beowulf, and I found a sing-song rhythm to it that did sort of have a calming impact, but then I forgot what I was reading.

I'm not sure whose fault this was, mine (for not being able to handle long poems?) or some fault in Tolkien's style? I remember in grammar school we read Longfellow's "Evangeline," and the same thing happened -- no matter how hard I tried to hold the storyline in mind, it just slipped away into hypnotic chanting. On the otherhand, "The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner" really worked for me, the images "flowed" and my comprehension continued full... go figure.

With Book of Lost Tales, I found the mixture of prose to poetry really improved my reading pleasure. I am wondering if the "original Silmarillion" as Christopher Tolkien calls The Lays of Beleriand was written while JRRT was still close under the influence of the Finnish Kalevala?

In BLT 1, pp 28 - 31 I quite liked the poem "You & Me and the Cottage of Lost Play," even when it was repeated with variations. Maybe my attention span has diminished with time, so I am "haiku-ized" short poetry only, LOL!

[Andorinha]

BLT - 1 chpt 1
"The Cottage of Lost Play"

Christopher Tolkien mentions that this version of JRRT's mythology is quite early, a copy of it made by JRRT's wife, is dated 1916/ 1917. Here Earendel (the name Tolkien adapted from an early fragment of Anglo-Saxon poetry) is also known as Eriol, "the one who dreams alone." JRRT's poem, "The Sea Bell" probably reflects this early tale of Eriol, a human being who dream-wanders his way into a Faerie Realm setting where he finds The Lost Cottage of Play. Here, some fairy folk live (Lindo and Vaire), and they invite Eriol to stay with them and listen to their histories and myths. This "cottage," TARDIS-like, proves to be vaster inside than out, and a lot of the experiences later used for Frodo in the House of Elrond, are prefigured here: a gong rings to summon a host of fairies and men to a feast, and there is the "Room of the Log Fire" where tales are told and songs are sung.

Here also are gathered all the "lost children" (shades of Peter Pan?) those who have left the wider world of men, or have been abandonned there and find a refuge in this Fairy house.

Here, the poem, "You and Me and the Cottage of Lost Play," BLT -1 pp. 28-31,
seems to be a lyrical distillation of this early tale, a "report" concerning Faerie that Eriol brings back from his travels so that men, in later times, will understand the first histories of the world, when the magics of the Fairies and the common-place lives of men once mingled.

Eventually, JRRT would mine this early material, and develope it in quite different ways as he put together his later versions of Middle-earth mythology, Eriol would become a part-elf-part-man, the progenitor of Elrond and Elros, the heavenly messenger who mediates between the Valar and the Children of Iluvatar who languish in Middle-earth beneath the assaults of Morgoth. But, in this early version, Eriol has no such closely defined role, he is merely a human wanderer, who dream-walks his way into an older, only slightly integrated dimension where Faerie and Mortal realms still partly intersect.

Perhaps the last section of this first chapter was even more interesting (to me) because we once discussed here on TR, JRRT's changing conceptualization of the physical appearance of his Fairies. Conjoined in this chapter, edited by Christopher Tolkien, are the several poetic versions of "The Lost Cottage of Play," and JRRT's first ideas about the relative sizes of Fairies and men. Here, between 1915 and the 1920s, the inhabitants of The Cottage, fairies and lost children/ men alike, are said to be minute in size. Men who visit there, will, if they stay long, gradually find themselves shrinking to fit more easily into the small scale of this "cottage" world. So, in these early writings, I think we have the first mention, and the first version of "Elf-Size" as JRRT himself conceived it. And here, is good evidence that Tolkien did indeed subscribe to the more common Victorian Folk Lore concerning the tiny size of the fairies. See also the 1915-17 JRRT poem "Goblin Feet."

But, as Christopher Tolkien then remarks, JRRT, sometime in the 1920s became repulsed by this idea concerning the small size of fairies, and in his later tales, "all the 'elfin' diminutiveness soon disappeared." (BLT-1, p. 32)

[Andorinha]

BL-T Chpt 2
"The Music of the Ainur"

Christopher Tolkien feels that this second chapter was composed to be read as a continuation of "The Cottage of Lost Play." There is a "linking passage" that allows the reader to move from one part of Eriol's conversation with Vaire in "The Lost Cottage" to the second chapter, "The Music of the Ainur." Christopher cannot find a direct date for this second chapter or the linking material that features the continuation of Eriol and Vaire's conversation, but he does believe from secondary writings of JRRT, that "The Song of the Ainur" in this version, was probably penned between 1918 and 1920, making it still one of JRRT's earliest Middle-earth works. This makes this particular version of the Ainur's singing the first we have available, and it is interesting then to read the 1977 Silmarillion version alongside this 1918-20 version to see just how Tolkien alterred his schemes of cosmogeny through some 40 years of his Middle-earth composition.

From this early version of "The Song of the Ainur," I am going to pick just two major themes: 1. Monotheism vrs. Polytheism in the Middle-earth cosmology; and 2. The first appearance of "Tevildo, Prince of Cats."

1. Tolkien and basic Monotheism: Who is Iluvatar? Egyptian/ Hebraic roots?

From this very early version of the creation of the universe (cosmogeny) JRRT violated a strictly Nordic, or Graeco-Roman model. In most of the earlier pagan religions found around the globe and throughout history, the concept of monotheism was poorly developed, if it was utilized at all. Generally the physical union of two gods, one male, one female resulted in the "birth" of the cosmos. Or one god might make the sky, another make the Sun, a third create the oceans, a fourth lift up the dry lands, etc. etc. Had JRRT been simply modelling his Middle-earth on the pagan Nordic sources, one would expect that a "college" of gods would meet, divide the tasks of creation among themselves, and get down to cooperatively building a universe for themselves.

But JRRT, in this first version of his "Song of the Ainur" has already chosen to have a single god act as the prime creator, and thereby he introduces a system that is basically monotheistic at its roots. This model of creation by a single god, is something that we first can see in the Heretic Pharaoah Ikhnaton' attempts (ca. 1350 BCE) to raise the solar disk Aton above all the other gods of Egypt.

The ancient Hebraic tradition also has an early example of monotheism embedded in its scriptures, said to have been first revealed to the Hebrew folk by their founding patriarch, Abraham. The dating of Abraham is still a matter of controversy, but the traditional calculations based strictly on the Old Testament, place his birth anywhere between 2170 BCE and 1991BCE. But, taken from a scientific, historical base, we are uncertain if Abraham's birth is correctly given when derived from the Biblical verses. Most of the Old Testament scholarship is agreed that the OT was first written down about 539 BCE, during the Babylonian Captivity. So we have a great gap in time between the presumed actual existence of Abrham, and the first known written records that mention him (some 1400 years).

Consequently, many scholars are not sure that Hebraic monotheism really was invented/ revealed by Abraham, noting that the texts of the Old Testament that pertain to Abraham cannot be read as an explicitly monotheistic system. The god El, or JHWH, Jehovah, simply claims to be one god among many, and, as a jealous god, Jehovah demands that his people, his followers, the Hebrews, must give him their sole worship. The other gods continue as being gods, and may still be worshipped by their own people, but woe betide the Hebrew who stops worshipping Jehovah and gives his prayers and sacrifices to any of the other gods. So when do the Hebrews first move to a fully monotheistic system, one in which their god Jehovah becomes not just a simple tribal god, but the ONLY god, the ONLY god of the entire universe?

According to the Biblical tradition, the Hebrews, long after Abraham had died, found themselves in Egypt between about 1700 and 1200 BCE. Three major Exodus dates are given in Biblical text criticisms: 1400 BCE, 1300 BCE, and 1250 BCE. So, did the Hebrews pick up the idea of full monotheism while they were in Egypt? If they truly left Egypt by 1400 BCE, they would probably not have been much influenced by Ikhnaton's monotheism, as Iknaton dates between 1375 - 1358 BCE.

But even here we have a good deal of controversy. The Biblical date of 1400 BCE (for the Exodus of the Hebrews from their Egyptian captivity) does not match up well with the dates of the suggested Pharaohs who must have been ruling Egypt when the Hebrews were either driven out of Egypt or escaped. Amenhotep II, Merneptah, Thothmes III, Rameses I, and Rameses II, have all been seen as good candidates for being the "Exodus Pharaoh." If this is so, the period of the Exodus, could be as late as 1250 BCE, because these Exodus Pharaohs date from 1450 down to Rameses II at 1292 - 1225 BCE. Three Exodus Pharaoh "favorites" generally emerge: Amenhotep II, around 1450 BCE, Rameses I 1315-1314 BCE, and Rameses II at 1295 to 1225. Although some scholars favour Amenhotep II, and a few accept Rameses I, it is in fact Rameses II who is most often seen as being the best of the candidates, and the Pharaoh most often chosen as the Exodus Pharaoh. He is even portrayed as such in the block-buster movie "The Ten Commandments."

If Amenhotep II was the Exodus Pharaoh, then Hebrew monotheism may have been their own invention, but if Rameses I or II was the Exodus Pharaoh, then the Hebrews would most likely have picked up the idea of full monotheism from Ikhnaton's religious reforms in 1375 BCE. Certainly, it is only after the Exodus that the Hebrews start to proclaim JHWH, their Jehovah, as the only valid god for all the universe, not just for the Hebrew tribes.

Consequently, when JRRT first created a Middle-earth universe of his own (BLT-1 chpt 2), and he chose to give it a monotheistic platform, he was using the Egyptian-Hebraic tradition of One Creator God, and Iluvatar/ Eru in Tolkien's works is derived from Aten of the Egyptians and then JHWH of the Hebrews. But, just here, Tolkien did something strange, he did not actually set up his first Middle-earth cosmos as a true/ full monotheism. Instead, he merged two different systems, the monotheistic Egyptian/ Hebrew, and the polytheistic Nordic/ Olympian system.

We can see this most clearly in chpt 2 of BLT-1, where JRRT first combines the two systems, using the Hebraic Jehovah "monotheism" as his First Principle, but then also using simultaneously and equally, the Nordic and Graeco-Roman polytheisms. In BLT-1, JRRT granted his Valar the status of full divinity, and he consistently referred to them as Gods (capitalization is his): "'But,' said Eriol, 'still are there many things that remain dark to me. Indeed I would fain know who be these Valar; are they the Gods'? ... 'So be they,' said Lindo..." (BLT-1, p. 45)

A bit later in this same chapter, on page 49, JRRT seems to be trying to explain his use of a double system (part monotheistic, part polytheistic) by giving us a more detailled description of Iluvatar, and defining him as being somehow a God among the Gods, a separate being who stands above them all:

"But Rumil said: 'Iluvatar was the first beginning, and beyond that no wisdom of the Valar or of Eldar or of Men can go.' 'Who was Iluvatar?' said Eriol. "Was he of the Gods?' 'Nay,' said Rumil, 'that he was not, for he made them. Iluvatar is the Lord for Always who dwells beyond the world; who made it and is not of it or in it, but loves it,'" (BLT-1, p.49)

To my understanding then, Tolkien has hereby created a monotheistic God Iluvatar (based on Aton/ Jehovah) who then created all the other Gods, and then allowed them to move and guide the developmental history of Middle-earth. For all practical purposes, the rest of the history of Middle-earth (as given in the BTL-1 version) will be largely concerned with this second layer of polytheistic divinities (the Valar), and relates the doings of these many Gods. So, while the entire Tolkien universe has a monotheistic beginning, it soon becomes a tale of many Gods that remarkably reproduces the pagan thought of the pre-Christian Nordic sagas and the Olympian dieities of Greece and Rome. Manwe becomes a Zeus/ Juppiter/ Odin figure; Mandos becomes the Judge of the Underworld, a Hades or Pluto; Tulkas becomes the God of War like Thor, Ares or Mars; Orome becomes the Dionysian God of the Hunt, or Hearne the Hunter; Aule becomes Hephaestus or Vulcan; and Melko becomes Loki, the God of Mischief, deceit, and destruction; etc., etc.

Later, sometime in the 1930's, JRRT started to alter his first conception of a mixed universe, one with a monotheistic root, but that thereafter utilized a polytheistic set of Gods. He began to try to more greatly "monothe-ize" his tales, at first demoting the Valar from Gods, to become simply "gods" without the capitalization. Next, he further demoted them by the time of the 1977 Silmarillion, to being simply "arch-angels" or "powers," no longer Gods in their own right.

What I find most intriguing then, about this second chapter of BLT-1, "The Song of the Ainur," is that it convinces me that Tolkien was torn very early on in his career as an imaginative author, torn between basing his Middle-earth on a Judeo/ Christian format, or a strictly Nordic/ Olympian system. He appears to have decided as early as 1918, that he would not follow William Morris, who used a fully polytheistic system, nor the pagan Finnish Kalevala, nor even the pagan Norse sagas. Instead, he would try to "marry" polytheism and monotheism in his own writings. Later on, however, he became ever more concerned with altering this unstable union toward becoming a true monotheism with the ONLY GOD being Iluvatar.

2. Concerning Tevildo, "Prince of Cats." (BLT-1, chpt 2, pp47, and 52)

I'll return to this forum a bit later with this tale...

[Stormrider]

I've started reading BLT1 and have read "The Cottage of Lost Play" and am starting the linking chapter.

As I get into the "Music of the Ainur" I will keep in mind what Andorinha posted here about monotheisms and polytheisms which was very interesting, by the way.

I must say that having Eriol visit the cottage and the fairies was easier to read than the published Silmarillion. It is more like a story tale.

[Stormrider]

I am just adding my post from The Hobbit Study Talking Animals thread about Tevildo the Cat to this thread. I think it is good to put it here, too.

BLT 2
The Tale of Tinúviel—written in 1917

Beren asked for Tinúviel’s hand in marriage and her father requested he bring one Silmaril from Melko’s Crown back to him so he could wed Tinúviel

When Beren left to bring back the Silmaril to Tinúviel’s father, he was captured by orcs and turned over to Melko. Beren said he wished to serve Melko in some way. Beren mentioned that he was a trapper of small animals and snarer of birds. So Beren became a slave of Tevildo and was led to the cat's badly lighted halls.

Tevildo was the mightiest cat of all--coal black and evil to look upon (a panther?—my two cents). He had gleaming green and red eyes that were long, narrow, and slanted. His grey whiskers were strong and sharp as needles. His purr sounded like a roll of drums and his growl was like thunder. If he yelled in wrath it turned the blood cold—some small beasts and birds were frozen as stone or dropped dead at the sound. He was possessed of an evil sprite (that’s what is written in my BLT 2—perhaps it should be spirit?) and served Melko. All other cats were subject to Tevildo. These lesser cats chased and captured all the meat for Melko’s table and his feasts.

Tevildo smelled dog on Beren when he first met him. (Beren liked dogs and had many in his own home.) Tevildo thought the orcs had brought Beren as meat for Melko’s table. He was pissed when he learned that Melko had sent Beren to help catch the meat and serve under Tevildo. Tevildo thought Melko was a bit nuts for sending Beren to him.

Tevildo gave Beren a test to catch three mice saying his halls were full of them (which was not true). There really weren’t many mice in the halls but the few that were there were wild, evil, magic, very fierce, and larger than rats.

Beren hunted the mice for three days without any weapons other than his cunning. He did not catch the mice and came back with a bitten finger. Tevildo was scornful and angry and made Beren a scullion—washing floors, dishes, scrubbing tables, chopping wood, and drawing water.

Tevildo had one problem—the kindred of the Dogs. There were breeds of dogs that did not follow or live in fear of Melko and lived near Men and protected them from much evil.

The dogs that lived near Men would bark and chase any of Tevildo’s slaves if they came near. The cats dreaded the dogs but not Tevildo. He was as strong as any of the dogs and more agile and swift than the dogs, except for the Captain of the Dogs, Huan. Huan was so fast he actually "tasted the fur of Tevildo" once but received a gash from Tevildo’s claws who now wished to do great harm to Huan.

Meanwhile Tinúviel was crying and carrying on back home. Eventually she snuck away to look for Beren. Luckily she met Huan in the woods. She said she was looking for Beren who her mother had told her was held in the service of Tevildo (I guess her mother could see this somehow).

Huan devised a plan for Tinúviel to go to Tevildo’s hall while the cats slept during the day and tell him that she had found Huan of the Dogs lying sick in the woods. Huan wanted to kill Tevildo and also help Beren whom the hounds loved.

Tinúviel went to Tevildo’s halls and told him she had great news of a hound that chased her. He brought her inside and she saw Beren slaving in the hall. She wanted him to know she was there so she spoke loudly and told the cat not to talk to her rudely since she was Tinúviel Princess of Fairies who stepped out of her way to do him a favor. Tevildo decided he would get the information out of her and then turn her over to Melko which would help Tevildo gain favor with Melko.

Then she told Tevildo that she was in the woods and came upon a hound laying on the ground moaning in sickness and was helpless in a dale in the woods. She said she would not have bothered Tevildo with this information if the hound had not tried to bite her when she approached to help him. So now he deserves whatever comes to him. Tevildo tried to find out exactly where Huan was but she only gave him vague answers since it was her only hope of escaping the castle if she led him out to Huan.

Tevildo takes two other cats with him and follows Tinúviel to where Huan lies faking his sickness. Tevildo is so eager to take Huan that Tinúviel is able to hide in the ferns. The three cats surround Huan and sneak up on him. But he jumps up and kills one cat. The other cat flees and Tevildo is left alone to face Huan. There is a huge fight and Huan had Tevildo by the throat but the cat pierced one of Huan’s eyes, got loose, and ran up a tree. Huan guards the base of the tree and demands a trade for Tinúviel and Beren for Tevildo’s freedom.

Tevildo gives Tinúviel his golden collar and a tells her the spell she has to speak that held the cat’s castle together and the spell on all his slaves. They all shrank to normal size and were afraid of her.

All the Elves and Men enslaved were brought out including Beren. They returned the collar to Huan who kept it and let Tevildo go to return to his home. Tevildo and the tribe of cats fled before the dogs. Melko heard of what happened and banished the cats.

[Andorinha]

Great idea, Stormrider! Having a copy here makes good sense as this is our main data set for Tevildo, even if it finally got worked into BLT-2!

Thanks!

[Fredeghar Wayfarer]

After letting it sit on my shelf for years, I am finally reading The Book of Lost Tales. Before I give my thoughts on that, I want to address some of the questions that Andorinha posed in this thread (albeit several years ago).

Yes, I think it was perfectly acceptable for the backstory of the First Age to be revealed. Having read The Silmarillion, The Children of Hurin, and Unfinished Tales, my knowledge and appreciation for Middle-earth has been greatly enriched. Knowing the history and the origins of things did not kill the magic of the vague references in The Hobbit and LOTR. It enhanced them. It gave me new stories to delve into and made me feel like an initiate into secret knowledge when seeing these references again upon rereads or viewings of the films. It made the tapestry of Middle-earth that much bigger and more impressive.

That said, as much as I love the characters and the concepts, I feel that these posthumous Tolkien books have two major flaws. The first is the style. Without the mediating presence and common man humor of the Hobbits, the early works are very dry, grandiose, and more like history chronicles than novels. They are difficult books to read.

The second flaw (to me anyway) is in Christopher Tolkien's commentaries. At times, they can be very interesting and illuminating. But, like the texts themselves, they are also extremely dry. Chris seems to be an excellent scholar but he's not much of a writer. The commentaries ramble somewhat and add to the dryness and archaic stuffiness of the books, making them that much harder for readers to slog through. You have to be a hardcore Tolkien fan (like us) to make it through these volumes.

So, should the First Age histories have been told? Yes. Should they have been told in this format? Not necessarily. But with the original author gone, we take what we can get.

[Fredeghar Wayfarer]

Moving on to The Book of Lost Tales itself -- I would never have the patience to make it through the whole History of Middle-earth series. But I want to read the BLT at least as this is where the whole shindig started, the origins of Middle-earth.

The framing device of Eriol the Anglo-Saxon mariner definitely gives it a different feel and makes it seem like I am reading a distinct story, rather than just a rehash of The Silmarillion. I don't know if this keeps up throughout the book but I like it.

It's very odd and interesting to read about the Cottage of Lost Play, the lost children of Men, and to see references to Fairies and Gnomes. These Victorian fairy tale elements feel so at odds with Tolkien's later works but it's fascinating to see where the story started.

I don't find these elements as distasteful as Tolkien did later in life. While drawing from a different tradition, he doesn't "cutesify" these elements as much as in Victorian stories. The Fairies aren't floating about granting wishes or spreading pixie dust. Tolkien gives them dignity and drama. There is a rich tradition of noble, demi-god-like Faeries in Celtic mythology so I think Tolkien could have easily adapted this to his mythos without having to chuck all references to the word "Faerie." Though I suppose it does carry baggage these days.

My mind was blown by the idea that Tol Erresëa was originally meant to become England! We were talking about this on the "Land Masses" thread. There was originally a much stronger connection to the country he was writing this myth for. This is another odd aspect of the book for me. Almost like breaking the Fourth Wall.

The notes even mention that Eriol was going to be the father of the legendary Anglo-Saxon chieftains Hengest and Horsa. As a fan of Arthurian legend who's encountered these characters before, that is also a mind-blowing revelation for me. This roots the story in an identifiable era of human history (the fifth century) and makes Eriol a potential contemporary of Uther Pendragon and Merlin! To use the vernacular - WTF?!! Totally different from the vague and imaginary past era of Lord of the Rings.

[Vanye]

While I have all 12 vols of HoMe I've yet to read beyond [Book of Lost Tales] (both vols.) [The Lays Of Belariand] being verse-and I just have a problem w/wading through all of that-a bit of too much! I have also read [The Silmarillion] 2X & [Unfinished Tales] as well. I keep telling myself that I am going to read the rest of them-eventually. I found LT to be somewhat strange in places-but interesting. I have also read [The Children of Hurin] which is of course an elaboration of sections of the Sil. Recentlly got [The Legend of Sigurd & Gudrun] which is also in my TBR pile. I wish that Christopher would put together an elaboration on the story of the Fall of Gondolin which is one of my favorite parts of the Sil. There are so many books on my To-Be-Read pile that it is just overwhelming when I think about it. 8^)

[Stormrider]

So far, I have only glanced at The Book of Lost Tales. I saw the parts about the Cottage of Lost Play and the mention of Gnomes and wondered about those. Those seemed so strange and they didn't belong in Arda and Middle-earth as I have come to know JRRT's world. Therefore, I haven't tackled it yet but some day I will do it, too.

Fredegar, please continue to post some of the interesting things you come across while reading. And I would like to hear some of you thoughts on it, too.

I do agree with you on Christopher's method of arranging and critiqueing his father's missing stories and how dry it seems.

And as you say, thank Goodness!

While drawing from a different tradition, he doesn't "cutesify" these elements as much as in Victorian stories. The Fairies aren't floating about granting wishes or spreading pixie dust. Tolkien gives them dignity and drama. There is a rich tradition of noble, demi-god-like Faeries in Celtic mythology so I think Tolkien could have easily adapted this to his mythos without having to chuck all references to the word "Faerie."

I may just see if I can get into it myself after I finish the love/murder/mystery I am reading now. ***Gagg*** Actually it isn't that bad...it was a book laying around work for people to read while on break. Since I didn't have time to go to the book store and haven't gotten a Kindle or similar reader with the ability to load a book online, I just picked it up for something to read.