|
Post by Stormrider on Sept 22, 2008 17:48:02 GMT -6
I'm glad you liked my idea. Perhaps he would have had the Elves using the Secret Fire to forge their rings, while the One Ring would be forged by Sauron alone, and made from the Flame of Udûn? This might then argue that there would be some sort of connection between Secret Fire and Flame of Udûn, maybe Udûn Fire would be Morgoth's corruption of the original Flame Imperishable? I like this concept...but...were the Elves allowed the use of the Secret Fire? and...If Morgoth was to corrupt the Flame Imperishable and make it the Flame of Udûn, he would have had to have been able to get to the Flame Imperishable. I don't think he ever was able to do that. I don't recall (and that don't mean nuthin' since my memory ain't reliable nohow) that Eru made a Flame of Udûn as the opposite of the Flame Imperishable or Secret Fire. Or did he create it when Morgoth was finally captured in the end? Was Udûn the place Morgoth/Melkor was sent? Where is my Sil and those other HoME books? I've got some research to do!
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Sept 23, 2008 6:35:46 GMT -6
Well, Melkor/Morgoth was banished to the Void. From the Akallabêth chapter in The Silmarillion:
Robert Foster describes the Void as The parenthesis are Foster's.
So Morgoth was not sent to Udûn or Hell. The Void sounds rather freaky. Nothing all around you forever!
|
|
|
Post by fanuidhol on Sept 25, 2008 5:53:20 GMT -6
Not to get too off-topic, but I was trying to come up with more connections between h e l l and Udun, so I checked my index to HoMe under the term h e l l. There are more than a few references in the first 3 vol. of HoMe - "H e l l s of Iron", Angband. I haven't made my way through them all, but one thing that struck me was the earliest reference in Lost Tales vol I, pg 78, in which Fui (who later morphs into Nienna) sends dead Men to their doom, that includes those that "she drives forth beyond the hills and Melko seizes them and bears them to Angamandi, or the H e l l s of Iron, where they have evil days." So, in this case h e l l isn't just a really hot place, but closer to the Christian concept as a place where bad boys and girls go after death. There seems to be a sort of limbo, purgatory, and heaven, too. Fan
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Sept 25, 2008 16:47:36 GMT -6
Wasn't "H e l l s of Iron", Angband or Angamandi, located in Arda to the North? Wasn't that where Melkor/Morgoth resided after he left with the Silmarils with his evil cohort, Ungoliant? This H e l l would be right on Arda itself rather than in the bowels of the planet. But now that I am thinking about it, there were deep caverns in Angband, too.
|
|