Post by Andorinha on Jan 14, 2009 12:54:42 GMT -6
AdvOf TB ARCHIVE: Similarites between Errantry and Eärendil
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Message 1 of 4 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 8/13/2002 5:47 PM
Photo is a creation of John Darcy Noble based on Tolkien's "Errantry" Thank-you AnnieLT! www.duirwaighgallery.com/DollGallery/JohnNoble/asnobleship.html
So Rivers has been doing quite well in my absence. I am really enjoying seeing all the views Tolkien has inpsired in all of us with his works.
How many of you when reading "Errantry" recalled Bilbo's poem in the Hall of Fire at Rivendell? If you cannot please take time to read it again. Page 626 in The Fellowship of the Rings. I would love to hear your insights on it's similarites.
So we have many interesting words within this poem, many little known such as Sigaldry, which was touched on in "Fun and Games, What's this word mean." And some which we have yet to define, such as plenilune. Which defined means full moon as in "Chamber Music" by James Joyce verse XII. However in Tolkien's poem it refers to a scabbard and we might forgo the literal translation and break it down into late Medieval English. "Pleni"- from plenyss-to fill and "Lune"- from loyn- which is a rare falconry term for a securing leash. Or as is sometimes Tolkien's want it may be describing the material "Silver tipped at penilune" as being "Ithildin" a material from LotR that shows up silver under moonlight or starlight.
Dumbledore I find amusing as well, if you are a Harry Poter fan, as it refers to Old English and means bumblebee. But in that context as well the mentioning of other insects as combatants, as well as love interest, perhaps we must consider or messengers size as diminutive. And perhaps find a key to the whole of the poem through this thinking.
The poem itself is a Hobbits dream as it's style is one that can run back upon itself and be retold. Very like a chant of sorts.
If you find anywords that you cannot find the meaning to or are in question please list them here and we can discuss their meanings.
Namárië,
Iarwain
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Message 2 of 4 in Discussion From: DaleAnn
Sent: 8/13/2002 7:06 PM
Wonderful picture!
I have read that the Errantry and Earendil poems are 'siblings'. In looks however, I think they are more like 3rd cousins, twice removed. Anybody who has The Treason of Isengard (HoMe 7) can see how the divergence occurred (chapter 5).
The poem has an incredibly rich history, including being the subject of Letter #133. A few months earlier, Tolkien had lost patience with his publisher and issued an ultimatum. A few months went by, then his former publisher wrote asking for information about this poem and also, asked how LotR was doing. Tolkien replied to the questions and asked his publisher to take him back. So, it is possible that we have Errantry to thank for getting these friends back together and for the publication of LotR. -----DA
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Message 3 of 4 in Discussion From: Glorfindle
Sent: 8/13/2002 7:49 PM
Awesome insights DA, if you have the exact dates, perhaps you can help my timeline.
Glor
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Message 4 of 4 in Discussion From: DaleAnn
Sent: 8/14/2002 4:09 AM
Oh, heck, Glor. I wish those insights were truly my own. I fully intended to give a link when I started that post...I don't know what happened. I gave the link to Iarwain a few months ago and Rivers just the other day. There is alot of great stuff about Errantry in it. So, here it is: www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/91315
As for dates, I don't have exact ones. Sometime in 1950, Tolkien issued his ultimatum to Allen & Unwin, then issued another ultimatum to his new publisher in the Spring of 1952. He really wanted LotR and Sil published together. Letter #133 was written in June of 1952.
_____________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 4 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 8/13/2002 5:47 PM
Photo is a creation of John Darcy Noble based on Tolkien's "Errantry" Thank-you AnnieLT! www.duirwaighgallery.com/DollGallery/JohnNoble/asnobleship.html
So Rivers has been doing quite well in my absence. I am really enjoying seeing all the views Tolkien has inpsired in all of us with his works.
How many of you when reading "Errantry" recalled Bilbo's poem in the Hall of Fire at Rivendell? If you cannot please take time to read it again. Page 626 in The Fellowship of the Rings. I would love to hear your insights on it's similarites.
So we have many interesting words within this poem, many little known such as Sigaldry, which was touched on in "Fun and Games, What's this word mean." And some which we have yet to define, such as plenilune. Which defined means full moon as in "Chamber Music" by James Joyce verse XII. However in Tolkien's poem it refers to a scabbard and we might forgo the literal translation and break it down into late Medieval English. "Pleni"- from plenyss-to fill and "Lune"- from loyn- which is a rare falconry term for a securing leash. Or as is sometimes Tolkien's want it may be describing the material "Silver tipped at penilune" as being "Ithildin" a material from LotR that shows up silver under moonlight or starlight.
Dumbledore I find amusing as well, if you are a Harry Poter fan, as it refers to Old English and means bumblebee. But in that context as well the mentioning of other insects as combatants, as well as love interest, perhaps we must consider or messengers size as diminutive. And perhaps find a key to the whole of the poem through this thinking.
The poem itself is a Hobbits dream as it's style is one that can run back upon itself and be retold. Very like a chant of sorts.
If you find anywords that you cannot find the meaning to or are in question please list them here and we can discuss their meanings.
Namárië,
Iarwain
______________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 4 in Discussion From: DaleAnn
Sent: 8/13/2002 7:06 PM
Wonderful picture!
I have read that the Errantry and Earendil poems are 'siblings'. In looks however, I think they are more like 3rd cousins, twice removed. Anybody who has The Treason of Isengard (HoMe 7) can see how the divergence occurred (chapter 5).
The poem has an incredibly rich history, including being the subject of Letter #133. A few months earlier, Tolkien had lost patience with his publisher and issued an ultimatum. A few months went by, then his former publisher wrote asking for information about this poem and also, asked how LotR was doing. Tolkien replied to the questions and asked his publisher to take him back. So, it is possible that we have Errantry to thank for getting these friends back together and for the publication of LotR. -----DA
__________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 4 in Discussion From: Glorfindle
Sent: 8/13/2002 7:49 PM
Awesome insights DA, if you have the exact dates, perhaps you can help my timeline.
Glor
__________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 4 in Discussion From: DaleAnn
Sent: 8/14/2002 4:09 AM
Oh, heck, Glor. I wish those insights were truly my own. I fully intended to give a link when I started that post...I don't know what happened. I gave the link to Iarwain a few months ago and Rivers just the other day. There is alot of great stuff about Errantry in it. So, here it is: www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/91315
As for dates, I don't have exact ones. Sometime in 1950, Tolkien issued his ultimatum to Allen & Unwin, then issued another ultimatum to his new publisher in the Spring of 1952. He really wanted LotR and Sil published together. Letter #133 was written in June of 1952.