Post by Andorinha on Jan 14, 2009 17:28:11 GMT -6
AdvOf TB ARCHIVE: Princess Mee
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Message 1 of 17 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 8/14/2002 7:19 AM
Here again like Errantry we find a poem that winds it's way back to the begining like a chant. This was apparently amusing for the Hobbits as was mentioned in the Preface: "so it may be recited until the hearers revolt." We of course will steer clear of that hundred bottles of beer nightmare.
So unlike Errantry, we are told what kind of person Princess Mee and her dance partner are do you know?
Do you see any resemblance to any character we have already discussed?
Do you feel this is a happy poem, or is it's tone more somber?
Which of our illustrious Hobbits do you suspect penned this verse?
Originally published under the name "Princess Ni" in 1924 it was reprinted for "Adventures", and renamed. What was going on in Tolkien's life in 1924?
As a whole I enjoy this poem it seems to speak of somthing I have yet to lay my finger on, but I have always enjoyed reading it. I tend ot imagine one of my sisters old music boxes.
Namárië,
Iarwain
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Message 2 of 17 in Discussion From: Zauber
Sent: 8/14/2002 8:55 AM
Yes, the music box image is perfect! One of those spinning fairies on a music box, dancing on a mirror!
The poem states she is an elf, but she seems to be of a completely different order than Arwen or Galadriel. She seems related to our mariner of Errantry, a bit empty-headed! In fact, she seems more like a classic 'fairy", the diminutive kind from stories prior to Tolkien's main body of work.
I would suspect Bilbo of writing this; it has his light handed and humorous touch. It makes me smile.
Zaube
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Message 3 of 17 in Discussion From: Zauber
Sent: 8/14/2002 9:01 AM
Checking Glor's handy Chronological Timeline, in 1924 Tolkien was working on his translation (with Gordon) of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight". I don't see a connection there, unless this was a happy little poem written as a break from the translation!
Zauber
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Message 4 of 17 in Discussion From: jerseyshore
Sent: 8/14/2002 12:49 PM
There's a very light-hearted tone to this poem that makes me think that it was something Tolkien wrote to amuse his children. I can see the image of the fairy dancing on the water with her reflection as appealing especially to a little girl fascinated with ballerinas. I like the use of Mee and Shee for the names of the fairy and her counterpart. The poem is utterly charming.
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Message 5 of 17 in Discussion From: AnnieLT
Sent: 8/14/2002 9:03 PM
There was reference to this poem on the Fun & Games board (Trivia Questions) by Sigevna. I immediately read the poem and was delighted in it. Like Iarwain and Zauber, I was reminded of a ballerina spinning above a mirror "lake" on (or sometimes in) a girl’s music box. The music that came to my mind was "The Music Box Dancer" for that was the song that played on my music box many years ago. A feeling of nostalgia came over me remembering that music.
On second reading several weeks later in preparation for our discussion, I was charmed by the way Tolkien ended the poem "Dancing as before with pearls in hair and kirtle fair and slippers frail of fishes’ mail went Mee; of fishes‘ mail and slippers frail and kirtle fair with pearls in hair went Shee." It painted a charming image of Mee looking down at her reflection. I also noticed that if you drop the e’s you have "me" watching "she", and "she" watching "me". I didn’t catch that on the first reading. I found this verse delightful and magical.
After reading and discussing the adventures of our errant knight during the last two days, I reread "Princess Mee last night. I was met with a very different feeling. Like the mariner, Princess Mee is caught in a kind of time warp, with the continuous repetition of the poem (a rhyme which returns to its own beginning). The mariner is doomed to forever roam, never remembering what it was he had set out to do. The princess has discovered her reflection in the pool and will eternally dance, captivated by the image she sees there. Even though I continue to enjoy this poem as I learn more about it, I am filled with a sadness by the thought that behind the illusion of charm and delight is a reflection of loneliness. Mee will eternally dance on that pool never knowing another elf or person. The lines that come before the ones I quoted above began to haunt me, "So still on her own an elf alone… " Mee will never know anyone else but Shee.
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Message 6 of 17 in Discussion From: rivers
Sent: 8/14/2002 9:23 PM
This is a sad little poem to me. It brings to mind the tale of Narcissus who fell in love with his own image and and whiled his days away lonely and alone with only his image. The music box reference was ideal for some reason it brings to mind how cute little girls are when they play dress up and look at themselves in the mirror and dream of being princesses. It is so depressing to see the little ones grow up and shed thier dreams for reality. MaybePrincess Mee saved herself some heartache by being entranced by the image of herself as she never had to grow up or old.Lighten up Rivers (sorry guys) Technically I love the way Tolkien reversed the garb of Shee and Mee both are wearing the same he just places them mirror imagely opposite sort of like "Through the Looking Glass."
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Message 7 of 17 in Discussion From: Glorfindle
Sent: 8/14/2002 11:20 PM
Zauber!!!!! You did exactly what I intended the time line for! Hooray!! Next part is slightly more difficult. When we do find a factual anomoly, we need to place it in the time line. Remember! This is NOT a finished work. This is the FRAME, or skeleton so to speak.
Once we have proven facts, we can insert them to the timeline. This will increase the value of this resource. I urge all members to help me expand and define this Timeline, to make it a reference tool peeps come to our site to find!!
Glor
P.S. Put all ideas and entries here, or in an e-mail to me. Members still, cannot at this point, add to the list or edit it.
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Reply
Message 8 of 17 in Discussion From: Zauber
Sent: 8/15/2002 6:50 AM
Doing my 'homework' last night, trying to track down some information I had read about "Errantry", I came across this in Randall Helms' "Tolkien's World" (Granada Publishing, 1978): referring to both 'Errantry' and 'Princess Mee',
"the joke of the discovered manuscript is at work, and Tolkien would reply to the charge of vulgarizing elves in the poems with the reminder that he did not write them but was merely the editor. We can then enjoy the double gift of joining Tolkien in chuckling at his own amusing doggerel, and obsering the less-than-keen poetic mind of the Shire at work as it fantasizes on the elves.... "Princess Mee" lets us see that the mind of the Shire wants very much to know about elves and their doings, but feels more comfortable hearing about the kind of elves that dance on water at night under the stars than about masters of power and knowledge like Elrond."
From what I have read, Tolkien's concept of elves as being human-sized, not the little butterfly-winged creatures of the nineteenth century, developed over time, especially as he worked on the Silmarillion.These were early poems, and by acting as editor, which amuses me quite a bit, and crediting them to Hobbits, he could use the early poems in a way that would not contradict his later efforts regarding elves. I find this situation hilarious. And I do think both Errantry and Princess Mee are not to be taken seriously, and be viewed as sad. After all, these poems are just 'snap-shots' in time. Princess Mee could very well have outgrown her narcissism and begun running about chanting "Legolas is soooo hot!", and The Mariner of Errantry could have finally remembered and accomplished his errand!
Zauber
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Message 9 of 17 in Discussion From: rivers
Sent: 8/16/2002 11:57 AM
Zauber I usually agree with you but this one time I must disagree with your snapshots in time theory because in the Errantry the line says for ever still a messenger, a passenger, a tarrier, and Princess Mee says so still on her own an elf alone so at anytime someone reads the poem the mariner will be a messenger and Mee will be dancing with her reflection this sense of eternity is what gives the poems depth and sadness. IMHO
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Message 10 of 17 in Discussion From: Zauber
Sent: 8/19/2002 7:38 AM
You are right, Rivers. A closer reading does show the snapshot theory to be out the window. I guess I didn't want them to be sad! Partly because I know we are coming up on some truly sad and haunting poems! I shall get out my handkerchief and procede.
Standing corrected, Zauber
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Message 11 of 17 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameLord_Algamesh
Sent: 8/29/2002 9:52 PM
When I read "Princess Mee", I really have a difficult time getting the image of Luthien out of my head. Is it only coincidence that both Elf-maidens enjoyed dancing by twilight under the heavens?
I get a sneaking suspicion that Tolkien was playing with LT's character in this snippet of Verse.
I also get the sense that this poem is sad. It states that by day P. Mee wanders "Under mantle grey and hood of clouded blue". I think that the words "grey" and "clouded" are purposeful devices employed to convey this feeling. Mee is definitely happiest at night when she can dance. I think this is her escape from the mundane and dreadful day ...
Algamesh
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Reply
Message 12 of 17 in Discussion From: AnnieLT
Sent: 8/30/2002 11:08 AM
Alg, you have pointed out the idea of "escape from the mundane" which is something I have found in most of these poems. Also the feeling of loneliness and sadness. Our characters create/catch/find another being with whom to share their world.
Mee - Shee
the mariner - the butterfly (who looses her)
The man who dwelt alone - his shadow
Tom - Goldberry
Lonely Troll - Perry-the-winkle
It makes me wonder more about Tolkien, his real world and his beloved Middle Earth where he seeks a refuge from the mundane (academic world, publishers) and the horrors of war, technological progress. Why does he create so many isolated figures who reach out to find another person or seek ways in which to escape the nightmares?
Annie
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Reply
Message 13 of 17 in Discussion From: megn1
Sent: 8/31/2002 7:53 PM
Wow, Annie! You're right. I never saw it so clearly before.
What you said reminds me of Tolkien's relationship with Lewis. Tolkien had friends throughout his life, some very close. But Lewis was clearly special, in the early stage of their relationship. He filled a need in Tolkien, and was very important to Tolkien.
As I recall, the problem in their relationship came when Charles Williams entered the picture. The best way that I can describe it is that Tolkien wasn't willing to share Lewis. This rift led the two friends to gradually drift apart over the years.
(It's been a few years since I read Tolkien's biography, so these comments are from memory.)
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Reply
Message 14 of 17 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameLord_Algamesh
Sent: 8/31/2002 9:16 PM
Annie,
Another reason for this may be related to proposed marriage woes. I have nothing on this but some small suggestions that I found in an informational compilation from Johann Koberl (some Austrian professor of Literature).
* "Problem with Carpenter is uncriticality, closely working with Tolkien estate, approximating hero worship. Occasionally annoying hints, such as serious difficulties in his marriage, never amounting to much."
Apparently, JRR and his wife, Edith, had differing opinions on their social interactions. Edith couldn't stand some of the "snooty" wives that were part of Tolkien's "circle". This may have led to a relocation or two that Tolkien didn't particularly appreciate. Also, from Koberl's work, it appears that Mrs. Tolkien was at odds with Tolkien and his Catholic fevor. The exact quote from the material is:
* "Next year, she becomes a Roman Catholic, unfortunately (at least according to JRR) not a particularly fervent one: one gets the impression she actually resented both having been made to convert to Catholicism and having to share her husband with his Catholic God."
Interesting stuff ....
Algamesh
__________________________________________
Reply
Message 15 of 17 in Discussion From: sparrow
Sent: 9/1/2002 11:53 AM
In Carpenter's The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, there is a gap between February 13, 1923 and June 27, 1925. There are no letters included from 1924.
I have enjoyed reading the posts in this thread.
It saddens me to think that Tolkien's marriage was not idyllic, although I realize no marriage is. Tolkien's estrangement from Lewis is also sad, as I admire both authors so much I think of them as something like personal friends.
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Reply
Message 16 of 17 in Discussion From: AnnieLT
Sent: 9/7/2002 9:40 AM
Yes, very interesting stuff, Alg. I was always under the impression that Tolkien and Edith’s relationship was idyllic as well.
And Megn’s reminder of his estrangement from Lewis makes me further wonder at the moods set in this and other poems we have read.
The gap between 1923 and 1925 that Sparrow alerts us to brings me back to the question Iarwain poses, "What was going on in Tolkien’s life in 1924?" (emphasis mine) What I have discovered, thanks to Glor’s timeline, is 1) Tolkien becomes professor of English at Leeds University, 2) Tolkien buys a house in Darnley Road, 3) 3rd son, Christopher is born. Would any of this be significant?
Annie
____________________________________________
Reply
Message 17 of 17 in Discussion From: AnnieLT
Sent: 9/7/2002 9:57 AM
It's sometimes nice to remember the images that come to mind upon first reading Princess Mee. I read it again in this light and I think about Jerseyshore's image of "the fairy dancing on the water with her reflection" and how appealing that is "especially to a little girl fascinated with ballerinas." Fascinating too, I think, for grown-up little girls. My inner child thanks you, JS, for reminding us that there are sweeter ways to digest a poem.
Annie
____________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 17 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 8/14/2002 7:19 AM
Here again like Errantry we find a poem that winds it's way back to the begining like a chant. This was apparently amusing for the Hobbits as was mentioned in the Preface: "so it may be recited until the hearers revolt." We of course will steer clear of that hundred bottles of beer nightmare.
So unlike Errantry, we are told what kind of person Princess Mee and her dance partner are do you know?
Do you see any resemblance to any character we have already discussed?
Do you feel this is a happy poem, or is it's tone more somber?
Which of our illustrious Hobbits do you suspect penned this verse?
Originally published under the name "Princess Ni" in 1924 it was reprinted for "Adventures", and renamed. What was going on in Tolkien's life in 1924?
As a whole I enjoy this poem it seems to speak of somthing I have yet to lay my finger on, but I have always enjoyed reading it. I tend ot imagine one of my sisters old music boxes.
Namárië,
Iarwain
________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 17 in Discussion From: Zauber
Sent: 8/14/2002 8:55 AM
Yes, the music box image is perfect! One of those spinning fairies on a music box, dancing on a mirror!
The poem states she is an elf, but she seems to be of a completely different order than Arwen or Galadriel. She seems related to our mariner of Errantry, a bit empty-headed! In fact, she seems more like a classic 'fairy", the diminutive kind from stories prior to Tolkien's main body of work.
I would suspect Bilbo of writing this; it has his light handed and humorous touch. It makes me smile.
Zaube
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 17 in Discussion From: Zauber
Sent: 8/14/2002 9:01 AM
Checking Glor's handy Chronological Timeline, in 1924 Tolkien was working on his translation (with Gordon) of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight". I don't see a connection there, unless this was a happy little poem written as a break from the translation!
Zauber
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 17 in Discussion From: jerseyshore
Sent: 8/14/2002 12:49 PM
There's a very light-hearted tone to this poem that makes me think that it was something Tolkien wrote to amuse his children. I can see the image of the fairy dancing on the water with her reflection as appealing especially to a little girl fascinated with ballerinas. I like the use of Mee and Shee for the names of the fairy and her counterpart. The poem is utterly charming.
__________________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 17 in Discussion From: AnnieLT
Sent: 8/14/2002 9:03 PM
There was reference to this poem on the Fun & Games board (Trivia Questions) by Sigevna. I immediately read the poem and was delighted in it. Like Iarwain and Zauber, I was reminded of a ballerina spinning above a mirror "lake" on (or sometimes in) a girl’s music box. The music that came to my mind was "The Music Box Dancer" for that was the song that played on my music box many years ago. A feeling of nostalgia came over me remembering that music.
On second reading several weeks later in preparation for our discussion, I was charmed by the way Tolkien ended the poem "Dancing as before with pearls in hair and kirtle fair and slippers frail of fishes’ mail went Mee; of fishes‘ mail and slippers frail and kirtle fair with pearls in hair went Shee." It painted a charming image of Mee looking down at her reflection. I also noticed that if you drop the e’s you have "me" watching "she", and "she" watching "me". I didn’t catch that on the first reading. I found this verse delightful and magical.
After reading and discussing the adventures of our errant knight during the last two days, I reread "Princess Mee last night. I was met with a very different feeling. Like the mariner, Princess Mee is caught in a kind of time warp, with the continuous repetition of the poem (a rhyme which returns to its own beginning). The mariner is doomed to forever roam, never remembering what it was he had set out to do. The princess has discovered her reflection in the pool and will eternally dance, captivated by the image she sees there. Even though I continue to enjoy this poem as I learn more about it, I am filled with a sadness by the thought that behind the illusion of charm and delight is a reflection of loneliness. Mee will eternally dance on that pool never knowing another elf or person. The lines that come before the ones I quoted above began to haunt me, "So still on her own an elf alone… " Mee will never know anyone else but Shee.
______________________________________________
Reply
Message 6 of 17 in Discussion From: rivers
Sent: 8/14/2002 9:23 PM
This is a sad little poem to me. It brings to mind the tale of Narcissus who fell in love with his own image and and whiled his days away lonely and alone with only his image. The music box reference was ideal for some reason it brings to mind how cute little girls are when they play dress up and look at themselves in the mirror and dream of being princesses. It is so depressing to see the little ones grow up and shed thier dreams for reality. MaybePrincess Mee saved herself some heartache by being entranced by the image of herself as she never had to grow up or old.Lighten up Rivers (sorry guys) Technically I love the way Tolkien reversed the garb of Shee and Mee both are wearing the same he just places them mirror imagely opposite sort of like "Through the Looking Glass."
_______________________________________
Reply
Message 7 of 17 in Discussion From: Glorfindle
Sent: 8/14/2002 11:20 PM
Zauber!!!!! You did exactly what I intended the time line for! Hooray!! Next part is slightly more difficult. When we do find a factual anomoly, we need to place it in the time line. Remember! This is NOT a finished work. This is the FRAME, or skeleton so to speak.
Once we have proven facts, we can insert them to the timeline. This will increase the value of this resource. I urge all members to help me expand and define this Timeline, to make it a reference tool peeps come to our site to find!!
Glor
P.S. Put all ideas and entries here, or in an e-mail to me. Members still, cannot at this point, add to the list or edit it.
________________________________________________
Reply
Message 8 of 17 in Discussion From: Zauber
Sent: 8/15/2002 6:50 AM
Doing my 'homework' last night, trying to track down some information I had read about "Errantry", I came across this in Randall Helms' "Tolkien's World" (Granada Publishing, 1978): referring to both 'Errantry' and 'Princess Mee',
"the joke of the discovered manuscript is at work, and Tolkien would reply to the charge of vulgarizing elves in the poems with the reminder that he did not write them but was merely the editor. We can then enjoy the double gift of joining Tolkien in chuckling at his own amusing doggerel, and obsering the less-than-keen poetic mind of the Shire at work as it fantasizes on the elves.... "Princess Mee" lets us see that the mind of the Shire wants very much to know about elves and their doings, but feels more comfortable hearing about the kind of elves that dance on water at night under the stars than about masters of power and knowledge like Elrond."
From what I have read, Tolkien's concept of elves as being human-sized, not the little butterfly-winged creatures of the nineteenth century, developed over time, especially as he worked on the Silmarillion.These were early poems, and by acting as editor, which amuses me quite a bit, and crediting them to Hobbits, he could use the early poems in a way that would not contradict his later efforts regarding elves. I find this situation hilarious. And I do think both Errantry and Princess Mee are not to be taken seriously, and be viewed as sad. After all, these poems are just 'snap-shots' in time. Princess Mee could very well have outgrown her narcissism and begun running about chanting "Legolas is soooo hot!", and The Mariner of Errantry could have finally remembered and accomplished his errand!
Zauber
_____________________________________________
Reply
Message 9 of 17 in Discussion From: rivers
Sent: 8/16/2002 11:57 AM
Zauber I usually agree with you but this one time I must disagree with your snapshots in time theory because in the Errantry the line says for ever still a messenger, a passenger, a tarrier, and Princess Mee says so still on her own an elf alone so at anytime someone reads the poem the mariner will be a messenger and Mee will be dancing with her reflection this sense of eternity is what gives the poems depth and sadness. IMHO
___________________________________________
Reply
Message 10 of 17 in Discussion From: Zauber
Sent: 8/19/2002 7:38 AM
You are right, Rivers. A closer reading does show the snapshot theory to be out the window. I guess I didn't want them to be sad! Partly because I know we are coming up on some truly sad and haunting poems! I shall get out my handkerchief and procede.
Standing corrected, Zauber
_____________________________________________
Reply
Message 11 of 17 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameLord_Algamesh
Sent: 8/29/2002 9:52 PM
When I read "Princess Mee", I really have a difficult time getting the image of Luthien out of my head. Is it only coincidence that both Elf-maidens enjoyed dancing by twilight under the heavens?
I get a sneaking suspicion that Tolkien was playing with LT's character in this snippet of Verse.
I also get the sense that this poem is sad. It states that by day P. Mee wanders "Under mantle grey and hood of clouded blue". I think that the words "grey" and "clouded" are purposeful devices employed to convey this feeling. Mee is definitely happiest at night when she can dance. I think this is her escape from the mundane and dreadful day ...
Algamesh
__________________________________________
Reply
Message 12 of 17 in Discussion From: AnnieLT
Sent: 8/30/2002 11:08 AM
Alg, you have pointed out the idea of "escape from the mundane" which is something I have found in most of these poems. Also the feeling of loneliness and sadness. Our characters create/catch/find another being with whom to share their world.
Mee - Shee
the mariner - the butterfly (who looses her)
The man who dwelt alone - his shadow
Tom - Goldberry
Lonely Troll - Perry-the-winkle
It makes me wonder more about Tolkien, his real world and his beloved Middle Earth where he seeks a refuge from the mundane (academic world, publishers) and the horrors of war, technological progress. Why does he create so many isolated figures who reach out to find another person or seek ways in which to escape the nightmares?
Annie
____________________________________________
Reply
Message 13 of 17 in Discussion From: megn1
Sent: 8/31/2002 7:53 PM
Wow, Annie! You're right. I never saw it so clearly before.
What you said reminds me of Tolkien's relationship with Lewis. Tolkien had friends throughout his life, some very close. But Lewis was clearly special, in the early stage of their relationship. He filled a need in Tolkien, and was very important to Tolkien.
As I recall, the problem in their relationship came when Charles Williams entered the picture. The best way that I can describe it is that Tolkien wasn't willing to share Lewis. This rift led the two friends to gradually drift apart over the years.
(It's been a few years since I read Tolkien's biography, so these comments are from memory.)
___________________________________________
Reply
Message 14 of 17 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameLord_Algamesh
Sent: 8/31/2002 9:16 PM
Annie,
Another reason for this may be related to proposed marriage woes. I have nothing on this but some small suggestions that I found in an informational compilation from Johann Koberl (some Austrian professor of Literature).
* "Problem with Carpenter is uncriticality, closely working with Tolkien estate, approximating hero worship. Occasionally annoying hints, such as serious difficulties in his marriage, never amounting to much."
Apparently, JRR and his wife, Edith, had differing opinions on their social interactions. Edith couldn't stand some of the "snooty" wives that were part of Tolkien's "circle". This may have led to a relocation or two that Tolkien didn't particularly appreciate. Also, from Koberl's work, it appears that Mrs. Tolkien was at odds with Tolkien and his Catholic fevor. The exact quote from the material is:
* "Next year, she becomes a Roman Catholic, unfortunately (at least according to JRR) not a particularly fervent one: one gets the impression she actually resented both having been made to convert to Catholicism and having to share her husband with his Catholic God."
Interesting stuff ....
Algamesh
__________________________________________
Reply
Message 15 of 17 in Discussion From: sparrow
Sent: 9/1/2002 11:53 AM
In Carpenter's The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, there is a gap between February 13, 1923 and June 27, 1925. There are no letters included from 1924.
I have enjoyed reading the posts in this thread.
It saddens me to think that Tolkien's marriage was not idyllic, although I realize no marriage is. Tolkien's estrangement from Lewis is also sad, as I admire both authors so much I think of them as something like personal friends.
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 16 of 17 in Discussion From: AnnieLT
Sent: 9/7/2002 9:40 AM
Yes, very interesting stuff, Alg. I was always under the impression that Tolkien and Edith’s relationship was idyllic as well.
And Megn’s reminder of his estrangement from Lewis makes me further wonder at the moods set in this and other poems we have read.
The gap between 1923 and 1925 that Sparrow alerts us to brings me back to the question Iarwain poses, "What was going on in Tolkien’s life in 1924?" (emphasis mine) What I have discovered, thanks to Glor’s timeline, is 1) Tolkien becomes professor of English at Leeds University, 2) Tolkien buys a house in Darnley Road, 3) 3rd son, Christopher is born. Would any of this be significant?
Annie
____________________________________________
Reply
Message 17 of 17 in Discussion From: AnnieLT
Sent: 9/7/2002 9:57 AM
It's sometimes nice to remember the images that come to mind upon first reading Princess Mee. I read it again in this light and I think about Jerseyshore's image of "the fairy dancing on the water with her reflection" and how appealing that is "especially to a little girl fascinated with ballerinas." Fascinating too, I think, for grown-up little girls. My inner child thanks you, JS, for reminding us that there are sweeter ways to digest a poem.
Annie