CONTINUOUS DISCUSSION: The Hero--Frodo or Sam

[Stormrider]

From: Stormridr (Original Message) Sent: 5/11/2003 9:34 PM

Sean Astin as Samwise Gamgee and Elijah Wood as Frodo Baggins

Many of us feel that there were many heroes in the story for if they had not done their parts, the Ring would never have been destroyed. However, on this thread I would like us to concentrate only on the task of the Destruction of the Ring. As we move through each chapter of Book Six, I would like us to put down our observations, thoughts, and comments on Frodo and Sam as they move closer to Orodruin and their ultimate mission.

I only ask that we keep to the current week's chapter and not skip ahead. If you would like to refer to any PAST chapters, that is fine.

At the start of each chapter I will come back to this thread and post which week and chapter we are discussing.

OK...Let's start with
Week 8, Chapter 1- The Tower of Cirith Ungol

Thinking Frodo was dead, Sam left to finish the Quest only to realize Frodo was still alive. Once he realized his mistake, Sam would not go on until he rescued Frodo.

What strengths in himself does Sam use to accomplish this?

How much does Sam rely on himself and how much on luck?

Frodo is weakened, disoriented, and helpless in this chapter but does he show any heroic attributes despite these?

[Stormrider]

From: Desi-Baggins Sent: 5/13/2003 7:06 PM
At this point of the story I feel Sam is the hero. But he has not carried the Ring as far as Frodo has, so it makes sense that Frodo's will is wearing thin. I also think that Sam leaves much up to luck, but not all Sam does have strength and good wits. He is able to see that the Ring is trying to fool him. He also realizes that he shouldn't put it back on so he must go seen while in Mordor. When he enters he tells the watchers or whoever maybe listening "Tell Captain Shagrat that the Great Elf-warrior has called...." I think this shows that he wasn't just walking in and relying only on luck because he did try to scare whoever might be around.


Desi

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From: Merlin the mad Sent: 5/13/2003 9:41 PM
Well, Tolkien himself refers to Sam Gamgee as the "chief hero" of TLOTR (Letters no. 131, page 161). By that, I think he means the main hero of focus, not the most heroic, as defined by deeds of courage and valor. I want to say more, but that would be jumping too far ahead and would create spoilers

MtM

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From: Ruscosenda Sent: 5/14/2003 10:17 AM
Although Sam is my favorite character in LOTR, I have to give equal credit to Sam and Frodo. It was Frodo's sacrifice, commitment, and leadership that made the task possible. Sam's first commitment was to Frodo, not the task. With all that said, without Sam's courage, loyalty, and love - Frodo would have no hope of completing his task.

-- Rusco

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From: Annie2 Sent: 5/18/2003 9:09 PM

The picture was lost--it was a picture of
Sam and Frodo in Mordor (film image)

Wk9, Bk6, Ch2, ONGOING DISCUSSION: The Hero: Frodo or Sam

"All right, Sam," said Frodo, "Lead me! As long as you've got any hope left. Mine is gone. But I can't dash, Sam. I'll just plod along after you."

Sam strikes me as the obvious leader throughout this chapter. What do you think? He cares for Frodo, encouraging him onward. His quick thinking saves them from discovery by their pursuers. He gives Frodo his portion of food ration. He even offers to taste the water before Frodo in case it is contaminated. Can you find other examples in this chapter that puts Sam in the role of leader and protector? True Sam is not carrying the ring, but I cannot believe he is not exhausted, hungry, thirsty, and discouraged. What gives Sam the strength to go on in the face of the horror of Mordor?

Do you think Frodo could have made it on his own? What about Sam? Sam had been willing to carry the Ring to Mordor when he thought Shelob had killed Frodo. Do you think the strength and positive attitude displayed here would have been enough for Sam to have taken on this quest alone? Why or why not?

What is Sam’s purpose in this quest? Is Sam exhibiting heroic qualities? If not how would you explain these characteristics?

[Stormrider]

From: Stormridr Sent: 5/27/2003 10:23 PM

by Natalia Nikitin

Frodo will not allow Sam to carry The Ring partly because it has bound him to it and partly because it is his duty as the Ringbearer. Which reason is stronger?

Frodo feels it is his duty to bring the Ring to its destruction. He persevers but finds that getting there is becoming increasingly harder. There are even times that he feels he cannot do it. Would you consider Frodo's keeping the burden of the Ring for himself and protecting any others from having to do it a heroic act?

How does Sam balance the duty of bearing The Ring with Frodo?
What other things does Sam do for Frodo to help get him to Mount Doom?

Gollum makes his presence known. What of him? He steps off the precipice and into the fire with the Ring. Is this a heroic act? Can Gollum be called the "Hero"?

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From: Desi-Baggins Sent: 5/27/2003 10:47 PM
It is obvious that Frodo and Sam needed each other. They are both heroic in their own ways. Frodo is protecting Sam and anyone else for that matter by keeping the burden to himself, I think Frodo would do that even if the Ring wasn't trying to over power him. Sam is protecting Frodo by making sure Frodo eats and gets rest. Plus Sam is encouraging Frodo and in his condition (with the Ring trying to control him) Frodo needs the encouragment. Frodo does show some strength in BK6 CH 2 when he says, "Still we need to try. It's no worse than I expected. I never hoped to get across. I can't see any hope of it now. But I've still got to do the best that I can....."
I am glad we don't have to find out how heroic Sam actually is because Gollum came along and accidentally destoryed the Ring.

Desi