Post by Andorinha on Jan 19, 2009 8:55:13 GMT -6
Which Valar?
____________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 36 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/16/2002 9:22 AM
Here's an open-ended question, to help us know each other better, and give us a firmer grasp of the Valar:
If you were a Maiar, with which Valar would you choose to live?
In other words, which of the Valar best suits your personality and temperment?
_______________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 36 in Discussion
From: DaveGude
Sent: 4/16/2002 10:31 AM
Make me the Minstrel of Manwe. I will sing his mightly theme.
I have my head in the clouds of imagination more than not. I have dreams of flying. I love Richard Bach's books about flying and seagulls and out-of-body experiences. I rejoice at the heroics of the eagles (under Manwe's allegiance) and their valliant rescues in LOTR. I see visions of movement and flight whenever I listen to or perform music.
________________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 36 in Discussion
From: DaveGude
Sent: 4/16/2002 10:40 AM
Make me a Minstrel of Manwe. I will sing and play his mightly theme.
I have flying dreams. My head usually stays in the clouds. I daydream, like Jonathan Livingston Seagull, of soaring through the sky. Favorite scene in Disney animated movies: Peter Pan and the children flying above London and the clouds part, revealing the depths and expanse below. When I play my guitar I have visions of movement and flight. And Hurray for the Eagles and their valiant rescues in LOTR!
______________________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 36 in Discussion
From: DaveGude
Sent: 4/16/2002 12:35 PM
Whoops! Sorry about that double posting. Does anyone have a technical tip for me? I "lost" my first posting after I entered it, so I re-wrote it, entered the second one, and then they both appeared! Arggh! Suggestions??
_____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 36 in Discussion
From: Lady_Oiolaire
Sent: 4/16/2002 7:41 PM
i am an artist at heart, but I love the earth and the sun and the stars...
this is a hard question for me....but in the end i say Yavanna. the plants and the animals of the world, and she is the spouse of Aule, sooo..... im covered in my art too!
I am a protector of dragons....ally of ROBEDMERLIN. you cross him, you cross me. unless i don't agree with him....
_____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 6 of 36 in Discussion
From: Nilanna
Sent: 4/16/2002 7:54 PM
"If you were a Maiar, with which Valar would you choose to live?"
Megn, what an interesting question!
Manwe and Varda seem too perfect, too perfect for me to comprehend. Yavanna and Aule seem too obsessed with what they create, and besides, the marital stife would get on my nerves. I think a week with Nienna would drive me to suicide. Namo deals with too many dead people, and he forgets nothing, along with Vaire the weaver... kinda scary, imo. Irmo, the master of visions and dreams, sounds tempting, but he, along with Este, seem a bit too gentle for my temperment. Tulkas is a bit too macho for my tastes (although his laughter is a big plus!), and Orome is a bit too angry. Nessa and Vana, their spouses, are a bit too fleetfooted/young for me.
So, I believe I'd choose Ulmo, the Lords of the Waters. He moves around at will and doesn't like to attend Valar meetings. He seems independent, and at times short of temper. I love the water, I love the independence, I love the latitude. Ulmo, then, would be my choice.
Nilanna
______________________________________________________
Reply
Message 7 of 36 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 4/16/2002 11:51 PM
Megan1,
I would have to agree with Nilanna, Ulmo would be my choice as well always moving. And it was he that never abandon the exiles his voice was and is always heard in Middle Earth and his fingers are always touching it. He, I think would be the well spring of knowlege about all that went on there. (excuse the pun.)
Namarie,
Iarwain
_______________________________________________
Reply
Message 8 of 36 in Discussion
From: Sunflowerwoman
Sent: 4/17/2002 3:35 PM
I would love to abide with Irmo and Este. I love dreams and visions, when I can remember them. I also love the thought of providing sanctuary and healing for those who are hurt. Finally, I would really like to live in Lorien.
Sunflowerwoman
________________________________________________
Reply
Message 9 of 36 in Discussion
From: Pherquarewen
Sent: 4/17/2002 8:53 PM
Sunflowerwoman,
To answer this question, I sat down with a piece of paper and wrote the characteristic of each Valar. I thought that I was going to be very original by picking Este. But you have beat me to it. And for the same reasons. At least we have comfort in knowing that great minds work alike.
Well, I must be unique, so I will pick Nienna. She brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow into wisdom. There is a beauty that develops only through struggles. Of course, this beauty is easily destroyed, if one gives way to bitterness. I would also like to have endurance with hope.
There is the weeping issue, but Gandalf spent time with her and he seems to manage to be a jolly fellow.
_____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 10 of 36 in Discussion
From: AnnieLT
Sent: 4/18/2002 5:12 AM
<DIR> <DIR> <DIR>
"And it is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur, more than any substance else that is in this earth; and many of the Children of Iluvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the sea, and yet know not for what they listen."
</DIR></DIR></DIR>
<DIR> <DIR> <DIR> <DIR> <DIR>
I understand better now why the elves of middle earth are drawn to the sea. I had often wondered why. Because I, too, love to listen to the music in water, in waterfalls, and high mountain streams that carve out majestic canyon walls, I understood without really understanding. When I first read the Hobbit and LOTR, it was in such settings, my favorite, a place called Hanging Lake in Glenwood Canyon.. Later, after rereading the books several months ago far from my beloved Rockies, they brought back those images, sounds, and fragrances that encircled me on my first reading.
I am now very curious to know more about Ulmo and wonder what the Ulumuri sound like. Perhaps that’s the sound I hear when I listen to the water swirling around boulders and purling along rocky banks. And why is Ulmo alone? And do elves and elf friends sing songs about him in the Hall of Fire at Rivendell or in the woods at Lorien? So,to anwer your question Megn, I would, of course, choose Ulmo. Nilanna and Iawain, our hearts must hear the voices that Ulmo set coursing through all the veins in the world. Could it be that we are water spirits at heart?
Nilanna, your name is new to me so I assume that you are a new member. Let me take this opportunity of welcoming you to Tolkien's Ring. I will enjoy sharing this journey with you and look forward to reading many more of your posts.
Did anyone else feel that these two chapters were written in very different prose, almost as if they were composed by two different authors? The former seemed more lyrical, poetic (see quote above). The latter appeared more historical in scope as if to explain or interpret what came before. I know that the Silmarillion was left to son, Christopher to work into publishable form and is it possible, I wonder, to decipher or recognize the words of Father and those of Son?
</DIR></DIR></DIR></DIR></DIR>
First thoughts, musings, and questions from the pen of
AnnieLT
____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 11 of 36 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/18/2002 8:42 AM
AnnieLT,
The material gathered in the Silmarillion was written over a period of decades. From early in the process Tolkien had a clear idea of the nature and history of his world, which didn't change. But he wrote and re-wrote the same stories and material over and over again, sometimes intentionally using different styles. So you are right in sensing a very different style between the first two sections. They were written independently of each other. Think of them as two prologues to the Quenta Silmarillion, which we begin this week.
_______________________________________________________
Reply
Message 12 of 36 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/18/2002 8:46 AM
Wen,
Wow. I hadn't given much thought to my own question, and if I had to answer it I would have said "Yavanna, because I love trees." But your answer touched something deeper in me, and I think I would gravitate to Nienna as well. (Sorry if this makes your answer less unique - it's still original because you thought of it first.)
From a young age I have known grief, and in many ways it has shaped who I am. It took years for that negative influence to mellow into a positive source of strength. Sorrow does become wisdom, if we let it. So I, too, feel drawn to Nienna.
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 13 of 36 in Discussion
From: Nilanna
Sent: 4/18/2002 9:05 AM
Annie, thank you for the welcome; I am indeed new. I love your description of the sounds of the water--I too am drawn to it's music.
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 14 of 36 in Discussion
From: Finrod Felagund
Sent: 4/18/2002 9:54 AM
The temple of Manwë, where He can see everywhere in Arda, is the best choice. If I could be someone of the Ainur, I´d choose Manwë, the power of Eru in Arda and one who sees furthest. Great responsibility he carries over his shoulder and sometimes is hardly understood by elves and men, although an enormous mourning is into his heart about the evil on Arda.
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 15 of 36 in Discussion
From: rivers
Sent: 4/18/2002 11:09 AM
Great question Megn,
I would choose Varda for many reasons. I am entranced by the stars on a moonless night and when I read of the beauty of ME under the stars of Varda it makes me have visions of crystal clear skies with glorious stars to light your way and guide you to the most lovely creature ever. To labor forever for a valar whose very presence brought beauty and peace and contentment would be wonderful. And the feeling of closeness to the actual creator of all by the light shining in her face and eyes would be all that anyone could need. I also somehow connect her with justice and righteous behavior as she brings the light to dispell fear and darkness.
_______________________________________________
Reply
Message 16 of 36 in Discussion
From: DaleAnn
Sent: 4/18/2002 1:44 PM
Sometimes, there are passages of books that hit me to the core of my being. This one is one of them:
"Some there are who have seen her standing like a tree under heaven, crowned with the Sun; and from all its branches there spilled a golden dew upon the barren earth, and it grew green with corn; but the roots of the tree were in the waters of Ulmo, and the winds of Manwë spoke in its leaves."
I would choose Yavanna, "for she is the lover of all things that grow in the earth, and all their countless forms she holds in her mind, from the trees...to the moss..or the small and secret things in the mould."
____________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 36 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/16/2002 9:22 AM
Here's an open-ended question, to help us know each other better, and give us a firmer grasp of the Valar:
If you were a Maiar, with which Valar would you choose to live?
In other words, which of the Valar best suits your personality and temperment?
_______________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 36 in Discussion
From: DaveGude
Sent: 4/16/2002 10:31 AM
Make me the Minstrel of Manwe. I will sing his mightly theme.
I have my head in the clouds of imagination more than not. I have dreams of flying. I love Richard Bach's books about flying and seagulls and out-of-body experiences. I rejoice at the heroics of the eagles (under Manwe's allegiance) and their valliant rescues in LOTR. I see visions of movement and flight whenever I listen to or perform music.
________________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 36 in Discussion
From: DaveGude
Sent: 4/16/2002 10:40 AM
Make me a Minstrel of Manwe. I will sing and play his mightly theme.
I have flying dreams. My head usually stays in the clouds. I daydream, like Jonathan Livingston Seagull, of soaring through the sky. Favorite scene in Disney animated movies: Peter Pan and the children flying above London and the clouds part, revealing the depths and expanse below. When I play my guitar I have visions of movement and flight. And Hurray for the Eagles and their valiant rescues in LOTR!
______________________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 36 in Discussion
From: DaveGude
Sent: 4/16/2002 12:35 PM
Whoops! Sorry about that double posting. Does anyone have a technical tip for me? I "lost" my first posting after I entered it, so I re-wrote it, entered the second one, and then they both appeared! Arggh! Suggestions??
_____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 36 in Discussion
From: Lady_Oiolaire
Sent: 4/16/2002 7:41 PM
i am an artist at heart, but I love the earth and the sun and the stars...
this is a hard question for me....but in the end i say Yavanna. the plants and the animals of the world, and she is the spouse of Aule, sooo..... im covered in my art too!
I am a protector of dragons....ally of ROBEDMERLIN. you cross him, you cross me. unless i don't agree with him....
_____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 6 of 36 in Discussion
From: Nilanna
Sent: 4/16/2002 7:54 PM
"If you were a Maiar, with which Valar would you choose to live?"
Megn, what an interesting question!
Manwe and Varda seem too perfect, too perfect for me to comprehend. Yavanna and Aule seem too obsessed with what they create, and besides, the marital stife would get on my nerves. I think a week with Nienna would drive me to suicide. Namo deals with too many dead people, and he forgets nothing, along with Vaire the weaver... kinda scary, imo. Irmo, the master of visions and dreams, sounds tempting, but he, along with Este, seem a bit too gentle for my temperment. Tulkas is a bit too macho for my tastes (although his laughter is a big plus!), and Orome is a bit too angry. Nessa and Vana, their spouses, are a bit too fleetfooted/young for me.
So, I believe I'd choose Ulmo, the Lords of the Waters. He moves around at will and doesn't like to attend Valar meetings. He seems independent, and at times short of temper. I love the water, I love the independence, I love the latitude. Ulmo, then, would be my choice.
Nilanna
______________________________________________________
Reply
Message 7 of 36 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 4/16/2002 11:51 PM
Megan1,
I would have to agree with Nilanna, Ulmo would be my choice as well always moving. And it was he that never abandon the exiles his voice was and is always heard in Middle Earth and his fingers are always touching it. He, I think would be the well spring of knowlege about all that went on there. (excuse the pun.)
Namarie,
Iarwain
_______________________________________________
Reply
Message 8 of 36 in Discussion
From: Sunflowerwoman
Sent: 4/17/2002 3:35 PM
I would love to abide with Irmo and Este. I love dreams and visions, when I can remember them. I also love the thought of providing sanctuary and healing for those who are hurt. Finally, I would really like to live in Lorien.
Sunflowerwoman
________________________________________________
Reply
Message 9 of 36 in Discussion
From: Pherquarewen
Sent: 4/17/2002 8:53 PM
Sunflowerwoman,
To answer this question, I sat down with a piece of paper and wrote the characteristic of each Valar. I thought that I was going to be very original by picking Este. But you have beat me to it. And for the same reasons. At least we have comfort in knowing that great minds work alike.
Well, I must be unique, so I will pick Nienna. She brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow into wisdom. There is a beauty that develops only through struggles. Of course, this beauty is easily destroyed, if one gives way to bitterness. I would also like to have endurance with hope.
There is the weeping issue, but Gandalf spent time with her and he seems to manage to be a jolly fellow.
_____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 10 of 36 in Discussion
From: AnnieLT
Sent: 4/18/2002 5:12 AM
<DIR> <DIR> <DIR>
"And it is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur, more than any substance else that is in this earth; and many of the Children of Iluvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the sea, and yet know not for what they listen."
</DIR></DIR></DIR>
<DIR> <DIR> <DIR> <DIR> <DIR>
I understand better now why the elves of middle earth are drawn to the sea. I had often wondered why. Because I, too, love to listen to the music in water, in waterfalls, and high mountain streams that carve out majestic canyon walls, I understood without really understanding. When I first read the Hobbit and LOTR, it was in such settings, my favorite, a place called Hanging Lake in Glenwood Canyon.. Later, after rereading the books several months ago far from my beloved Rockies, they brought back those images, sounds, and fragrances that encircled me on my first reading.
I am now very curious to know more about Ulmo and wonder what the Ulumuri sound like. Perhaps that’s the sound I hear when I listen to the water swirling around boulders and purling along rocky banks. And why is Ulmo alone? And do elves and elf friends sing songs about him in the Hall of Fire at Rivendell or in the woods at Lorien? So,to anwer your question Megn, I would, of course, choose Ulmo. Nilanna and Iawain, our hearts must hear the voices that Ulmo set coursing through all the veins in the world. Could it be that we are water spirits at heart?
Nilanna, your name is new to me so I assume that you are a new member. Let me take this opportunity of welcoming you to Tolkien's Ring. I will enjoy sharing this journey with you and look forward to reading many more of your posts.
Did anyone else feel that these two chapters were written in very different prose, almost as if they were composed by two different authors? The former seemed more lyrical, poetic (see quote above). The latter appeared more historical in scope as if to explain or interpret what came before. I know that the Silmarillion was left to son, Christopher to work into publishable form and is it possible, I wonder, to decipher or recognize the words of Father and those of Son?
</DIR></DIR></DIR></DIR></DIR>
First thoughts, musings, and questions from the pen of
AnnieLT
____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 11 of 36 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/18/2002 8:42 AM
AnnieLT,
The material gathered in the Silmarillion was written over a period of decades. From early in the process Tolkien had a clear idea of the nature and history of his world, which didn't change. But he wrote and re-wrote the same stories and material over and over again, sometimes intentionally using different styles. So you are right in sensing a very different style between the first two sections. They were written independently of each other. Think of them as two prologues to the Quenta Silmarillion, which we begin this week.
_______________________________________________________
Reply
Message 12 of 36 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/18/2002 8:46 AM
Wen,
Wow. I hadn't given much thought to my own question, and if I had to answer it I would have said "Yavanna, because I love trees." But your answer touched something deeper in me, and I think I would gravitate to Nienna as well. (Sorry if this makes your answer less unique - it's still original because you thought of it first.)
From a young age I have known grief, and in many ways it has shaped who I am. It took years for that negative influence to mellow into a positive source of strength. Sorrow does become wisdom, if we let it. So I, too, feel drawn to Nienna.
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 13 of 36 in Discussion
From: Nilanna
Sent: 4/18/2002 9:05 AM
Annie, thank you for the welcome; I am indeed new. I love your description of the sounds of the water--I too am drawn to it's music.
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 14 of 36 in Discussion
From: Finrod Felagund
Sent: 4/18/2002 9:54 AM
The temple of Manwë, where He can see everywhere in Arda, is the best choice. If I could be someone of the Ainur, I´d choose Manwë, the power of Eru in Arda and one who sees furthest. Great responsibility he carries over his shoulder and sometimes is hardly understood by elves and men, although an enormous mourning is into his heart about the evil on Arda.
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 15 of 36 in Discussion
From: rivers
Sent: 4/18/2002 11:09 AM
Great question Megn,
I would choose Varda for many reasons. I am entranced by the stars on a moonless night and when I read of the beauty of ME under the stars of Varda it makes me have visions of crystal clear skies with glorious stars to light your way and guide you to the most lovely creature ever. To labor forever for a valar whose very presence brought beauty and peace and contentment would be wonderful. And the feeling of closeness to the actual creator of all by the light shining in her face and eyes would be all that anyone could need. I also somehow connect her with justice and righteous behavior as she brings the light to dispell fear and darkness.
_______________________________________________
Reply
Message 16 of 36 in Discussion
From: DaleAnn
Sent: 4/18/2002 1:44 PM
Sometimes, there are passages of books that hit me to the core of my being. This one is one of them:
"Some there are who have seen her standing like a tree under heaven, crowned with the Sun; and from all its branches there spilled a golden dew upon the barren earth, and it grew green with corn; but the roots of the tree were in the waters of Ulmo, and the winds of Manwë spoke in its leaves."
I would choose Yavanna, "for she is the lover of all things that grow in the earth, and all their countless forms she holds in her mind, from the trees...to the moss..or the small and secret things in the mould."
