Wk13 Bk6 Ch8: Wormtongue's Hesitation

[Stormrider]

From: AnnieofTR (Original Message) Sent: 6/22/2003 4:12 PM

Grima by Francesco Amadio

The picture entitled "Death of the Many-Colored" by Derek L. Hand was lost.

Wk13, Bk6, Ch8, DISCUSSION: Wormtongue’s Hesitation

As Saruman turned to depart, Wormtongue hesitated a moment before following his master. Frodo called to him, "You need not follow him. I know of no evil you have done to me. You can have rest and food here for a while, until you are stronger and can go your own ways."

Why did Grima pause before following Saruman? And why did he halt and look back at Frodo? Does he want to stay? Does his master feel his servant’s hesitation? Perhaps that is why, at this moment, Saruman chose to tell the hobbits that it had been Worm who killed Lotho. Why did Saruman choose this moment to reveal the deed? What did he think or expect the hobbits to do? Did he wish to incite them further than they already were?

He must have known what the consequences would be? The thought that entered my head at that moment was that Saruman had wanted to invoke their wrath and he wanted to die at the hand of a Hobbit. Perhaps this would be his last chance at revenge?

Worm’s red eyes were full of wild hatred. "You told me to, you made me do it." Why did Worm want the others to know that Saruman shared in this action? Why should he care what the hobbits thought? Why had he become so agitated?

Saruman kicked Grima in the face and as he turned to leave, called out, "Follow." I expected Worm to follow just as I imagined Saruman did. Instead, in a surprising attack, Worm jumped on his master, jerked his head back and slit his throat. Were you as shocked as I? Or did you expect this?

What snapped in Wormtongue at that moment, I wonder? And why did the hobbits kill Worm? It happened too fast for Frodo to intervene. Did you think this was a fitting end for Saruman? For Wormtongue?

Before closing this discussion, I would like to focus on one more thing, something Saruman said of Wormtongue, "Even when he sneaks out at night it is only to look at the stars." What do you make of that? It seemed an odd thing for Saruman to say. I’m at a loss and am hoping some of you might be able to make sense of it or shed some light on it.

[Stormrider]

From: rivers Sent: 6/23/2003 4:43 PM
It is only a guess as to the meaning of Grima sneaking out at night but originally Grima was a Man of Rohan, a horseman. I have visited the plains and the north of Texas and when you are on those flat places at night it seems the stars are brighter and that they go on forever. It gives one a feeling of majesty and wonder as well as a bit of the insignificance of mankind. That feeling is one that Grima may have felt before he became a slithering cowardly excuse for a human being. It was probably a time when he felt a little cleaner and untainted by lust and greed and murder so perhaps he was trying to recapture the feeling the feeling of abetter time in his life. We already know that Saruman was extremely convincing and a smooth talker and that Grima could not resist the entrapment to which he had become entangled in. The only way to escape that voice that he couldn't resist and had to obey was to kill Saruman. Obviously he had done many things for which he was mortally ashamed of at the behest of Saruman's powerfully enchanting voice. After backing a losing party it is natural to try and seperate yourself from the disgrace but he was trapped and couldn't get away.(imho)

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From: Fangorn Sent: 6/23/2003 5:01 PM
Great thoughts, Rivers! I see it differently though. I think Saruman was being sarcastic, and was alluding to Grima sneaking out at night to do murderous mischief. When Frodo offered help, Saruman betrayed Grima, by indicating to Grima, that if he took the help, Saruman would expose him and the evil he did at night. Misery loves company. I am very intrigued by the persona of Grima, and look forward to some in-depth study. His evil is of the low, pathetic kind, rooted in his id, accompanied by self loathing and low self esteem. To be exposed as a monster, by a monster, turned on his murderous rage, and he acted as he normally would. Think of Hitler saying these things to Goerbels, or Himmler, in front of the Nuremberg court.

This is a great topic, and I hope to read more.

Fangorn

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From: Illadria Sent: 6/24/2003 1:55 PM
Excellent points from both Fangorn and Rivers. I see this as the ultimate betrayal and humiliation from Saruman on Grima. Grima hesitated because he felt the prospect of redemption. Saruman sensed that and reminded him that he was not worthy of redemption. Grima was indeed worthy of it, as Frodo had indicated (and so was Saruman, even up to the last, as Gandalf had hoped) - but Saruman would not let Grima escape so easily and dashed his hopes by reminding him of his past crimes.

~Illadria

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From: Illadria Sent: 6/24/2003 2:04 PM
I think that Grima's looking at the stars was an indication of his inner turmoil. He was so low, so evil...yet he was in love with what was good. He wanted it - wanted to be a part of it. But he had no hope, and thought that it was forever out of his reach.

~Illadria