Post by Stormrider on Jan 24, 2009 18:19:49 GMT -6
From: Lord_Algamesh (Original Message) Sent: 12/2/2002 10:52 PM
"Ach, sss! Cautious, my precious! More haste less speed. We musstn't rissk our neck, musst we, precious? No, precious - gollum!" He lifted his head again, blinked at the moon, and quickly shut his eyes. "We hate it," he hissed. "Nassty, nassty shivery light it is - sss - it spies on us, precious - it hurts our eyes."
The preceding statement was spoken by Gollum as he was scaling a sheer cliff in search of the Hobbits, Frodo and Sam. Throughout the remainder of the book, we will see Gollum make many references to the celestial bodies and his fears about them.
Take a good look at the reproduced dialogue ... Gollum assigns sentient characteristics to the Moon (and later the Sun). He even goes as far to insinuate that the Moon spies upon him. Does he literally believe that the Moon is "out to get him"? What does this say about Gollum, his beliefs, mentality, personality, etc? This is one of the truly great things about literature ... the ability to know a character by his/her printed word.
* * *
From: Selmo Sent: 12/3/2002 6:43 AM
Gollum has spent most of his long life hiding and "sneaking". The desire to remain hidden has become instinctive. Only his desparate need to find his precious forced him from the caves and tunnels of the Misty Mountains. He feels vulnerable in any sort of light.
In ascribing will to the Moon, Gollum is simply showing his deep-seated insecurity.
Perhaps, like Sam, he associates the Moon and stars with the Elves, whom he hates.
Another similarity between Gollum and Sam?
Selmo.
* * *
From: patty Sent: 12/6/2002 12:37 PM
I agree with Selmo that Gollum is afraid of the light. He knows that as long as there is no presence of any light whatsoever he can remain hidden. Gollum fears that if there is any light, even moonlight, his ability to remain invisible without the the ring is in jeopardy. He spent many years with the ring giving him the ability to remain hidden, he still desires invisibility. Gollum realizes that true darkness is a close as being invisible as he is going to get until he gets the ring back.
* * *
From: Patricia Sent: 12/7/2002 9:22 PM
Gollum, has been hidden for so long that he may feel that everything out side of Misty Mountain is a spy. Gollum also says that the light hurts him, being in the darkness for so long may have made him ultra sensitive to the light. Gollum changed during the time he was in the Mountains and so did his skin, the creature he has turned into seems to be that of a reptile that may not like the light and is physicaly harmed by the light.
* * *
From: Storrmrider Sent: 12/7/2002 10:11 PM
The moon , stars , and sun were created by the Valar and Earendil is also in the sky with a Silmaril star. After having The Ring which was created for evil by Sauron, he has had many long years corrupted by the evil causing an aversion to Elves and Valar. So these celestial bodies would very much hurt his eyes and make him feel they are "out to get" him.
Stormrider
* * *
From: IarwainBen-adar1 Sent: 12/8/2002 10:59 AM
My what an interesting subject, Gollum's perspective! While I have to agree with much that already been said, for some reason the image of a little Green Dragon poped upon my shoulder and said go for the three part essay!
Origins: The Sun and the Moon
I apologize if some have yet to journey the pages of the Silmarillion, but it is a journey of worth in any Tolkien study, and as you may see, of some worth with regards to our esteemed Leaders queery.
According to the creation of Arda Myth both the Sun and the Moon (Always proper nouns in Elvish) are actual enities. Both Tilion (Q)-Horned and Arien (Q)- (no precise definition but árë- is sunlight) were Maiar (Q)- The Beatiful or servants of the Valar.
When the Two Trees were mortally wounded by Melkor and Ungoliant, all that could be done was attempted to revive them. Before they died however Teleperion gave one last silver flower, and Laurelin bore one last golden fruit. These were then hallowed by Manwë, and placed in vessels by Aulë to preserve them. The Vessels were then given to Varda so that they might become lamps of Heaven. She it was who set them in the sky and gave them the power to traverse Middle-earth, with Tilion given the Silver Flower or the Moon to guide, and Arien the Golden fruit or Sun to guide. Something to note Arien was a Spirit of fire, or Valaraukar or Balrog whom was not decieved into the service of Melkor. And above the skys of Middle-earth they journey endlessly. So when Gollum assigns personality traits to them such as spying he is not so far off. Which brings us to how would he know?
The One Rings Power
How would a former Stoor (hobbit) have insight into the origins of the Sun and Moon? Well Elvish history had always refered to the Moon in the masculine gender and the Sun in the feminine. But I see that as a dead end as Gollum only shortly used the Ring to spy on others before he slithered beneath the Misty Mountains. Even still is his aversion to almost anything remotely Elvish.
So how? Purely conjecture here, but Galadriel makes an interesting quote when talking to Frodo after his vision whithin her mirror. She mentions that over time the Ring bearer becomes more aware of things and peoples thoughts, being able to perceive things none Ring bearers could not. An example is Frodo seeing her Ring Nenya when it was really "nenya darn business" (sorry couldn't resist) and Sam not noting it at all. Being Gollum having possession of the Ring for so long, or vice- versa, did some of this perceptive ability rub off on to Gollum making him aware. He was after all uncanny in many of his perceptive abilities.
Light and Dark
So I agree that Gollum indeed detested light of anykind, he found it painful (perhaps reminding him of his past) and of course considered it dangerous. But if we look at his past as Smeagol we also see he even before the Ring prefered his head down. He cared not at all for the sky, and only found delight in digging and roots, and beginings as he thought. Perhaps it was his destiny to be the Ring bearer if only for his pure contempt of the light even then? But would this mean the Ring was aware of him?
Namárië,
Iarwain
"Ach, sss! Cautious, my precious! More haste less speed. We musstn't rissk our neck, musst we, precious? No, precious - gollum!" He lifted his head again, blinked at the moon, and quickly shut his eyes. "We hate it," he hissed. "Nassty, nassty shivery light it is - sss - it spies on us, precious - it hurts our eyes."
The preceding statement was spoken by Gollum as he was scaling a sheer cliff in search of the Hobbits, Frodo and Sam. Throughout the remainder of the book, we will see Gollum make many references to the celestial bodies and his fears about them.
Take a good look at the reproduced dialogue ... Gollum assigns sentient characteristics to the Moon (and later the Sun). He even goes as far to insinuate that the Moon spies upon him. Does he literally believe that the Moon is "out to get him"? What does this say about Gollum, his beliefs, mentality, personality, etc? This is one of the truly great things about literature ... the ability to know a character by his/her printed word.
* * *
From: Selmo Sent: 12/3/2002 6:43 AM
Gollum has spent most of his long life hiding and "sneaking". The desire to remain hidden has become instinctive. Only his desparate need to find his precious forced him from the caves and tunnels of the Misty Mountains. He feels vulnerable in any sort of light.
In ascribing will to the Moon, Gollum is simply showing his deep-seated insecurity.
Perhaps, like Sam, he associates the Moon and stars with the Elves, whom he hates.
Another similarity between Gollum and Sam?
Selmo.
* * *
From: patty Sent: 12/6/2002 12:37 PM
I agree with Selmo that Gollum is afraid of the light. He knows that as long as there is no presence of any light whatsoever he can remain hidden. Gollum fears that if there is any light, even moonlight, his ability to remain invisible without the the ring is in jeopardy. He spent many years with the ring giving him the ability to remain hidden, he still desires invisibility. Gollum realizes that true darkness is a close as being invisible as he is going to get until he gets the ring back.
* * *
From: Patricia Sent: 12/7/2002 9:22 PM
Gollum, has been hidden for so long that he may feel that everything out side of Misty Mountain is a spy. Gollum also says that the light hurts him, being in the darkness for so long may have made him ultra sensitive to the light. Gollum changed during the time he was in the Mountains and so did his skin, the creature he has turned into seems to be that of a reptile that may not like the light and is physicaly harmed by the light.
* * *
From: Storrmrider Sent: 12/7/2002 10:11 PM
The moon , stars , and sun were created by the Valar and Earendil is also in the sky with a Silmaril star. After having The Ring which was created for evil by Sauron, he has had many long years corrupted by the evil causing an aversion to Elves and Valar. So these celestial bodies would very much hurt his eyes and make him feel they are "out to get" him.
Stormrider
* * *
From: IarwainBen-adar1 Sent: 12/8/2002 10:59 AM
My what an interesting subject, Gollum's perspective! While I have to agree with much that already been said, for some reason the image of a little Green Dragon poped upon my shoulder and said go for the three part essay!
Origins: The Sun and the Moon
I apologize if some have yet to journey the pages of the Silmarillion, but it is a journey of worth in any Tolkien study, and as you may see, of some worth with regards to our esteemed Leaders queery.
According to the creation of Arda Myth both the Sun and the Moon (Always proper nouns in Elvish) are actual enities. Both Tilion (Q)-Horned and Arien (Q)- (no precise definition but árë- is sunlight) were Maiar (Q)- The Beatiful or servants of the Valar.
When the Two Trees were mortally wounded by Melkor and Ungoliant, all that could be done was attempted to revive them. Before they died however Teleperion gave one last silver flower, and Laurelin bore one last golden fruit. These were then hallowed by Manwë, and placed in vessels by Aulë to preserve them. The Vessels were then given to Varda so that they might become lamps of Heaven. She it was who set them in the sky and gave them the power to traverse Middle-earth, with Tilion given the Silver Flower or the Moon to guide, and Arien the Golden fruit or Sun to guide. Something to note Arien was a Spirit of fire, or Valaraukar or Balrog whom was not decieved into the service of Melkor. And above the skys of Middle-earth they journey endlessly. So when Gollum assigns personality traits to them such as spying he is not so far off. Which brings us to how would he know?
The One Rings Power
How would a former Stoor (hobbit) have insight into the origins of the Sun and Moon? Well Elvish history had always refered to the Moon in the masculine gender and the Sun in the feminine. But I see that as a dead end as Gollum only shortly used the Ring to spy on others before he slithered beneath the Misty Mountains. Even still is his aversion to almost anything remotely Elvish.
So how? Purely conjecture here, but Galadriel makes an interesting quote when talking to Frodo after his vision whithin her mirror. She mentions that over time the Ring bearer becomes more aware of things and peoples thoughts, being able to perceive things none Ring bearers could not. An example is Frodo seeing her Ring Nenya when it was really "nenya darn business" (sorry couldn't resist) and Sam not noting it at all. Being Gollum having possession of the Ring for so long, or vice- versa, did some of this perceptive ability rub off on to Gollum making him aware. He was after all uncanny in many of his perceptive abilities.
Light and Dark
So I agree that Gollum indeed detested light of anykind, he found it painful (perhaps reminding him of his past) and of course considered it dangerous. But if we look at his past as Smeagol we also see he even before the Ring prefered his head down. He cared not at all for the sky, and only found delight in digging and roots, and beginings as he thought. Perhaps it was his destiny to be the Ring bearer if only for his pure contempt of the light even then? But would this mean the Ring was aware of him?
Namárië,
Iarwain