Post by Stormrider on Jan 25, 2009 10:33:53 GMT -6
From: Lord_Algamesh (Original Message) Sent: 3/4/2003 12:07 AM
Thanks to Sam's misdeed in revealing the identity of Sauron's Ring, we finally come to one of my favorite dialogues in the entire saga:
"So it seems," said Faramir, slowly and very softly, with a strange smile. "So that is the answer to all the riddles! The One Ring that was thought to have perished from the world. And Boromir tried to take it by force? And you escaped? And ran all the way -- to me! And here in the wild I have you: two halflings and a host of Men at my call, and the Ring of Rings. A pretty stroke of fortune! A chance for Faramir, Captain of Gondor, to show his quality! Ha!"
I have always believed that this presentation and slight deception of Faramir was instrumental in gaining the trust of the Hobbits. I believe that had he immediately attempted to reassure Sam that there would have been some major trust issues (not to mention taking away from the drama in this scene). Anyone have any additional insights or opinions about this sequence of events or the elements of trust?
* * *
From: Artemis Sent: 3/7/2003 1:15 PM
Algamesh,
I agree with you, this is one of my favorite passages. I think it is absolutely essential for the trust issues as you said.... but also, each major character in the story must be directly confronted with that choice (should I take the ring and try to use it myself). We see it over and over again, each of them has a chance to show his (or her) quality.
I also love the contrast between Boromir and Faramir and the interplay with Aragorn. Boromir is completely seduced by the power of the ring, but Faramir sees its treachery from the start. Two brothers, and yet completely different points of view. Dissention within the household..... It is implied that the blood of "lesser men" has influenced the people of Gondor and here you see the living examples. On the otherhand, Aragorn who was from the true lineage of kings, would not consider using the ring for his own benefit (a loftier air about him). Maybe this is why Farmamir and Boromirs forefathers were ever the stewards of Gondor and were never considered Kings even after many years without a king?
Artemis
* * *
From: LovesBeren Sent: 3/22/2003 12:12 AM
It is the sweetest of moments, isn't?
-------------------------------------
Several things lead up to this moment.
He’s sharpness towards Sam that contrasts his own willingness to seek truth (When Sam first stands up to him). His ability to see and admit the flaw in his brother Boromir …(and his own glory therein) His honesty in saying “it is long since we had any hope.” The time he took with them explaining the lore of men and the fall of the Numenor. He answered Sam’s questions. His honesty in the answers he gives. He admits his fear, but does not assign blame.
Sam slips out the “Ring.”
Sam asks that he show his “quality”
A pretty stroke of fortune! A chance for Faramir, Captain of Gondor, to show his quality! Ha!"
…Faramir plays with Sam and Frodo in that moment... or does he? We can’t forget that he is in mourning and wants the love of his father Denethor. The Ring is what his father wants.
But in that same moment he expresses the grief that he knew was his brother’s fate. He remembered his own vow… Truth …
Speaks so much like Tolkien here …But I am not such a man. Or I am wise enough to know that there are some perils from which a man must flee.
------------------------------
It is here the hobbits trust begins…
I have to type it out… it’s sooo sweet.
Frodo had felt himself trembling as the first shock of fear passed. Now a great weariness came down on him like a cloud. He could dissemble and resist no longer.
“I was going to find a way to Mordor,” he said faintly. I was going to Gorgoroth. I must find the Mountain of Fire and cast the thing into the gulf of Doom. Gandalf said so. I do not think I shall ever get there.
Faramir stared at him for a moment in grave astonishment.
Then suddenly he caught him as he swayed, and lifting him gently, carried him to the bed and laid him there, covered him warmly. At once he fell into a deep sleep.
Sam says “Yes sir, and showed your quality: The very highest.”
Sniff, sniff, - wish I could have seen that on the screen.
LovesBeren
* * *
From: Storrmrider Sent: 3/22/2003 7:29 AM
Luthien:
That would have been a wonderful scene on the screen! Too bad! I agree! sniff! sniff!
I can picture the amazement that Faramir must have felt when Frodo told him what he intended to do with theRing. And I think he felt a great deal of awe that such a small being would have so much determination and sense of responsibility to dare attempt such a great task. I think Faramir very much admired Frodo for taking this task upon himself and the grit and determination of Sam for standing by and protecting Frodo. Look at the care he took with Frodo: and lifting him gently, carried him to the bed and laid him there.
I wonder if Faramir wondered how successful Frodo and Sam would be? But he was willing to give them the chance by letting them go on their journey. Faramir may have had special 'insight' to allow this course of action to play itself out.
Stormrider
Thanks to Sam's misdeed in revealing the identity of Sauron's Ring, we finally come to one of my favorite dialogues in the entire saga:
"So it seems," said Faramir, slowly and very softly, with a strange smile. "So that is the answer to all the riddles! The One Ring that was thought to have perished from the world. And Boromir tried to take it by force? And you escaped? And ran all the way -- to me! And here in the wild I have you: two halflings and a host of Men at my call, and the Ring of Rings. A pretty stroke of fortune! A chance for Faramir, Captain of Gondor, to show his quality! Ha!"
I have always believed that this presentation and slight deception of Faramir was instrumental in gaining the trust of the Hobbits. I believe that had he immediately attempted to reassure Sam that there would have been some major trust issues (not to mention taking away from the drama in this scene). Anyone have any additional insights or opinions about this sequence of events or the elements of trust?
* * *
From: Artemis Sent: 3/7/2003 1:15 PM
Algamesh,
I agree with you, this is one of my favorite passages. I think it is absolutely essential for the trust issues as you said.... but also, each major character in the story must be directly confronted with that choice (should I take the ring and try to use it myself). We see it over and over again, each of them has a chance to show his (or her) quality.
I also love the contrast between Boromir and Faramir and the interplay with Aragorn. Boromir is completely seduced by the power of the ring, but Faramir sees its treachery from the start. Two brothers, and yet completely different points of view. Dissention within the household..... It is implied that the blood of "lesser men" has influenced the people of Gondor and here you see the living examples. On the otherhand, Aragorn who was from the true lineage of kings, would not consider using the ring for his own benefit (a loftier air about him). Maybe this is why Farmamir and Boromirs forefathers were ever the stewards of Gondor and were never considered Kings even after many years without a king?
Artemis
* * *
From: LovesBeren Sent: 3/22/2003 12:12 AM
It is the sweetest of moments, isn't?
-------------------------------------
Several things lead up to this moment.
He’s sharpness towards Sam that contrasts his own willingness to seek truth (When Sam first stands up to him). His ability to see and admit the flaw in his brother Boromir …(and his own glory therein) His honesty in saying “it is long since we had any hope.” The time he took with them explaining the lore of men and the fall of the Numenor. He answered Sam’s questions. His honesty in the answers he gives. He admits his fear, but does not assign blame.
Sam slips out the “Ring.”
Sam asks that he show his “quality”
A pretty stroke of fortune! A chance for Faramir, Captain of Gondor, to show his quality! Ha!"
…Faramir plays with Sam and Frodo in that moment... or does he? We can’t forget that he is in mourning and wants the love of his father Denethor. The Ring is what his father wants.
But in that same moment he expresses the grief that he knew was his brother’s fate. He remembered his own vow… Truth …
Speaks so much like Tolkien here …But I am not such a man. Or I am wise enough to know that there are some perils from which a man must flee.
------------------------------
It is here the hobbits trust begins…
I have to type it out… it’s sooo sweet.
Frodo had felt himself trembling as the first shock of fear passed. Now a great weariness came down on him like a cloud. He could dissemble and resist no longer.
“I was going to find a way to Mordor,” he said faintly. I was going to Gorgoroth. I must find the Mountain of Fire and cast the thing into the gulf of Doom. Gandalf said so. I do not think I shall ever get there.
Faramir stared at him for a moment in grave astonishment.
Then suddenly he caught him as he swayed, and lifting him gently, carried him to the bed and laid him there, covered him warmly. At once he fell into a deep sleep.
Sam says “Yes sir, and showed your quality: The very highest.”
Sniff, sniff, - wish I could have seen that on the screen.
LovesBeren
* * *
From: Storrmrider Sent: 3/22/2003 7:29 AM
Luthien:
That would have been a wonderful scene on the screen! Too bad! I agree! sniff! sniff!
I can picture the amazement that Faramir must have felt when Frodo told him what he intended to do with theRing. And I think he felt a great deal of awe that such a small being would have so much determination and sense of responsibility to dare attempt such a great task. I think Faramir very much admired Frodo for taking this task upon himself and the grit and determination of Sam for standing by and protecting Frodo. Look at the care he took with Frodo: and lifting him gently, carried him to the bed and laid him there.
I wonder if Faramir wondered how successful Frodo and Sam would be? But he was willing to give them the chance by letting them go on their journey. Faramir may have had special 'insight' to allow this course of action to play itself out.
Stormrider