|
Post by Stormrider on Jul 14, 2013 7:02:12 GMT -6
Just wondering about weapons we might inherit through our training. What is good for horseback? Swords, spears, bows?
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Jul 14, 2013 9:56:05 GMT -6
Hmm, the Parthians gave the Romans fits by developing fast-moving, accurate cavalry archers. Lances work well from horses, jousting style, but never heard much of spear tossing while riding a horse, nor axe tossing either. So we can use the "Parthian Shot," ride away from enemy, turn in the saddle shoot backwards into your pursuing foes; or the Native American buffalo hunt -- ride alongside a foe and pepper him with arrows laterally.
Lancer-work seems especially well developed in the Medieval Western Tradition, very good against isolated foes on foot. And then the sweeping blow of a sword edge as you ride past a dismounted/ or mounted enemy is particularly effective as the horse's momentum is added to the speed of the swinging blade -- lots of people actually bisected by such a blow...
Gandalf and Eomer, movie version charge into massed ranks of Orcs with a hedge of spears and pikes pointed at the Rohirim, would have been simple suicide, equicide. Faced with tight formations that carry long pointy sticks, we stay at range and pepper em with arrows... Can do this on horse back, ride circles around 'em, shoot into the mass. Most times, people used horses just to get to the battlefield quickly, dismounted, fought on foot, and then remounted if enemy broke and ran, or remounted to escape if enemy was victorious.
Looks like short, recurved bows (Mongol style), lances (not throwing spear/ javelin) and long sword would be best. Saxons used long-handled axes, but always while on foot.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jul 14, 2013 16:44:24 GMT -6
Ha ha ha ha! That was great and really funny. I think you captured all of our characters perfectly on the first half of our Eagle airlines ride.
Thanks for the weapon history. I was thinking swords and bows were best. They could be used on foot or horseback. Not sure we would want to drag lances around with us.
Crossbows would be best on foot -- aren't they slower and more difficult to load? Would be tough riding and loading.
So my turn next. Better put my thinking cap on and do a little Tolkien research. At this time in the story, Beorn has passed away and his son is now in charge at the Carrock, correct? And the Stoors who lived where we landed are no longer there.
|
|
|
Post by fanuidhol on Jul 14, 2013 18:02:31 GMT -6
Great fun riding on an eagle's back. I thought it was funny that you worked in a tired DA since she didn't sleep much the night before. Just like real life! Fan PS If at all possible, I'd like DA to have a bow and arrows. Enjoyed archery very much when I was younger. Still have my Dad's bows. Been thinking of taking it up again.
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Jul 14, 2013 18:07:00 GMT -6
I'm figuring about 40 mph for Eagle cruising, 200 to 250 air miles distance, and Eagles rarely fly at night: "We are not Owls, you know," said Landhir, trying to Hoot, and plainly failing at it -- just to make the point...
What will they find? Could there be a few hold-over, lost tribe Hobbits still clinging to their ancient homeland, or just old mounds, and rubble? Perhaps a memorial to poor Deagol, lost in the River, presumed drowned...
_____________
LOL, yeah toting around an 8 - 12 foot pole would be conspicuous, and very tiresome...
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jul 14, 2013 18:26:46 GMT -6
We did a little bit of archery in gym class in high school. Can't say if I did well or not--I don't remember much about it. Most likely I wasn't that good. I would be better with a long sword, I imagine. I don't particularly like the idea of no hands on the reins while riding. Lol! So swinging a sword in one and holding the reins in the other is more my style. Anyone else have any preferences?
Yes, ruins and mathoms. Gotta think about this. Been trying to research whether Stoors in this region also used hobbit holes or not. I suppose they did--with some carpentry and brick laying involved. Otherwise, on the river, huts? No hills or mtns nearby to think caves. Was it even hilly enough for hill built homes?
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Jul 14, 2013 20:01:20 GMT -6
Where did Smeagol live...
Here we have some problems, because Gollum, as The Hobbit Smeagol is a late addition to the tale. I think originally, as The Hobbit was first written, Gollum was just a strange creature, living alone in the mountain cave, but remembering times when he had lived with others of his kind, and they got together in their "holes" along the river bank to have riddle contests.
"Riddles were all he [Gollum] could think of. Asking them, and sometimes guessing them, had been the only game he had ever played with other funny creatures sitting in their holes in the long, long ago, before he lost all his friends and was driven away, alone, and crept down, down, into the dark under the mountains." (The Hobbit, chptV, "Riddles in the Dark," p, 68).
"Gollum brought up memories of ages and ages and ages before, when he lived with his grandmother in a hole in a bank by a river..." (p. 70)
These quotes, however, refer to the original Gollum, before LOTR and the alteration of the character to become a debased Hobbit -- so who knows what Tolkien had in mind for the LOTR Gollum, who probably would have lived in a typical Hobbit hole, dug into a bank of the river, or into an older river terrace bank now prudently above the usual floods?
I think here, we get to use some freedom of interpretation, as Tolkien never, to my knowledge said much more about Gollun/ Smeagol, except, later, after LOTR, he did, in a Letter, try to downplay the matriarchal angle, and undercut the power Gollum's grandmother seemed to have originally.
|
|
|
Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Jul 14, 2013 20:48:53 GMT -6
Been trying to research whether Stoors in this region also used hobbit holes or not. I suppose they did--with some carpentry and brick laying involved. Otherwise, on the river, huts? No hills or mtns nearby to think caves. Was it even hilly enough for hill built homes? I would assume the Stoors lived in holes. Didn't the word "hobbit" come from a Rohirric word that means "hole-dweller?" That implies that the hobbits lived in holes when they had contact with the Northmen, the ancestors of the Rohirrim, in the Vales of Anduin.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jul 14, 2013 22:53:25 GMT -6
Okay, I assumed it was a hole of some kind. If the Stoors live in Bree and other parts of the Shire now, then I would think that their homes would be similar to other hobbit holes. As far as the original Gollum, pre-LOTR, I have always gone under the assumption that the re-written is the correct tale since it tied everything up (more or less) so it all flowed as parts of the same tale. Since we all know the whole tale, I think we should keep our thinking as that instead of pre-LOTR storyline.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jul 16, 2013 15:40:45 GMT -6
I am confused. The Battle of the Gladden Fields was on the west side of the Anduin near the swampy area where Gladden meet Anduin according to Fosters. He also said they were orcs of the Misty Mtns. Reading UT, howver, it sounds as if Isildur was on the east side of the Anduin and orcs came out of Mirkwood.
Foster quotes from FOTR but his pages don't match my book. I assume from Council of Elrond, but haven't found it yet. UT were writings never published by JRRT himself so I want to go with what is published. And it makes sense that it should have taken place in the marsh and the land north and south of the Gladden River.
So about TA 1410, Stoors settled in that area--I assume in the Gladden Fields and probably across the Anduin. What do you think?
|
|
|
Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Jul 16, 2013 16:22:08 GMT -6
According to this page, they were on the east side of the Anduin. They were passing along the eaves of Mirkwood with the forest on their right. Not sure what source they're using but the Tolkien Gateway is usually pretty accurate. tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Disaster_of_the_Gladden_FieldsCould it be that Foster was just speculating and new information about the Battle of the Gladden Fields was revealed when Unfinished Tales was published later?
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jul 16, 2013 16:39:47 GMT -6
Your link is the same information I read in "Disaster of the Gladden Fields" chapter of Unfinished Tales. That was published after JRRT's death by Christopher Tolkien so I am wondering if that is the correct info or not.
Thanks for the link.
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Jul 18, 2013 11:59:26 GMT -6
I have some problems with Foster, he was guessing at times, incomplete information. I'd use Tolkien's version, even if it is post LOTR in date, Isildur up east side of river, swims to left or west bank, loses Ring there. So maybe the Stoor settlement is on the West side of Anduin, as that's where Deagol finds the Ring?
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jul 18, 2013 12:25:58 GMT -6
I wasn't sure since it was called the Battle of the Gladden Fields and being across the river from the Gladden Fields had me baffled. I suppose the Stoors could have settled on both sides of the Gladden and Anduin Rivers. The description in UT says that the Anduin was low and going from the river up to the forest had rolling hills--perfect for hobbit holes.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jul 22, 2013 5:28:54 GMT -6
I have been working on this. Trouble is, it is sounding like a history lesson and getting long. I may have to hack it to pieces quite a bit or start all over. Grrrrr
I thought it would be fun for each of us to post individually on what mathom we find for ourselves while the eagles are searching for food.
|
|