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Post by Andorinha on Aug 28, 2010 19:35:32 GMT -6
Tolkien admitted to having been influenced (in small ways) by many of the books, stories, articles he had read, music he heard, and art works he had seen. This "catch-all" category will allow us to post information concerning some of these sources.
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Post by Andorinha on Aug 28, 2010 19:52:19 GMT -6
As I was just thumbing my way through Michael Drout's J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia, I came across a reference to the tales of Algernon Blackwood. Drout mentions that some of JRRT's notes show that Old Man Willow, his anti-social tendencies at any rate, might have been suggested by Blackwood's long story "Willows." Having never before heard of this Blackwood I googled him up, and found his tales are free to the public. The price being just right for me, and having a little spare time today, I decided to broaden my mind by perusing his willow-tale. This also gives me an opportunity to try the URL fixation process Stormrider has offered elsewhere -- we'll see if my computer non-savvy brain can master the seemingly simple formula! At any rate, I'm just starting part 2 of "The Willows" and the sense of impending danger that emanates from the willows on this island where the story takes place is quite chilling. I think it captures the "spirit" of Old Man Willow in FOTR nicely! Not sure yet if this story has a "happy" ending, but I do definitely see the influences between Blackwood and JRRT! Back to the tale! On the tool bar, there is a globe button. Click on it and it will give you these codes: [ url ] [ / url] Stick the entire long http link in between the two bracketed urls. books.google.com/books?id=j3kQAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA127&dq=Algernon+Blackwood+Willows&hl=en&ei=S595TL3MDMzRcaOB5Z4G&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CFEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Post by Andorinha on Aug 28, 2010 20:04:20 GMT -6
Hoo-ray! Thank You, Stormrider, the URL infix formula worked!!!
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Post by Stormrider on Aug 29, 2010 6:35:06 GMT -6
And your link took me directly to the section on The Willows instead of at the beginning. Otherwise I would have had to scroll to the correct page! After I finish reading the other long link you posted, I will start this one!
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Post by Andorinha on Mar 6, 2011 0:52:26 GMT -6
Reading parts of Andrew Lang's Colour Fairy Book series, I found a lovely dragon-slaying tale, that very well could have influenced the youthful Tolkien. "The Dragon of the North," in The Yellow Fairy Book, pp. 7-20. books.google.com/books?id=E1QmAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Andrew+Lang+Fairy+Book&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false1. The YFB dragon, like Smaug and Glaurung, can ensnare victims by overpowering their minds if direct eye contact is made. 2. Birds are used as "intelligence" agents by the dragon hunter who can learn their language. 3. A magical ring figures prominently in the YFB dragon story, where the ring's powers allow a vastly less powerful human the strengths that are necessary for him to successfully slay the great dragon. 4. In YFB, a magician acts as counsellor / teacher for the dragon-slayer, in The Hobbit, it is a wizard (Gandalf) who performs this function. Neither the magician nor the wizard are actually on hand when the dragon is killed. 5. The YFB ring carries an invisible inscription that only magic makes readable, sounds like Frodo's One Ring? 6. Among other powers, the YFB ring, can make its bearer invisible. 7. Eventually, in different ways, but the end is the same, both the YFB ring, and the LoTR One Ring "disappear" -- never to be seen by humans again. We know Tolkien was enamored of Dragon Tales, and that he read at least some of the A. Lang Colored Fairy Book volumes, I'm betting this Yellow Fairy Book, and its Dragon-lore packed adventure, "The Dragon of the North," was one of his favorites!
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Post by Stormrider on Mar 6, 2011 8:54:40 GMT -6
Cool! Is this just the Yellow Fairy Book? I can print this out and won't have to buy the book. Will I be able to search for each Color of Fairy Book on this Google Books link? It looks like your search was for "Andrew Lang Fairy Book" and I only see the Yellow in full. Never mind, I see your link on our other discussion thread for Google links to all the Color Fairy Books www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=Andrew+Lang+Fairy+Book&btnG=Search+BooksI see a Table of Contents listing other books by Andrew Lang in the link. Did he write the Arabian Nights, too? Reading the Dragon of the North, I see that the Ring not only makes one invisible, it also has other powers if put on different fingers. Quite tricky of the youth to fool the witch maiden! Interesting story. I thought the last sentence/question of the story was rather strange!
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Post by Andorinha on Mar 7, 2011 0:17:58 GMT -6
Yeah, you should be able to access all 12, sometimes there is a new edition out that has its own, still active copyright, but if you search about, you can find the original versions for all 12. Andrew Lang wrote his own book length works, but his fame for us "moderns" lies more in his collection of pre-existing tales which he then edited and bound together in book formats. Anything to do with folklore/ fairy tales he probably had a hand in it -- his Arabian Nights Tales is a version of the ancient Arabic texts, I think cleaned up a bit for Victorian children. Richard Burton (not the 1950s-70s actor but the famous African explorer of the 1850s-90s) had an unexpurgated, sexually explicit version of the Arabian Nights, lol, Burton's version is a sort of standard issue from which modern "cleaner" versions have been made. Looks like Lang's (cleaned-up version) Arabian Nights has been reissued several times, so it may not be available online as a full, free read. Andrew Lang has a pleasant to read "History of the Town and College of Oxford," also available online, just started it. books.google.com/books?pg=PA20&dq=Andrew+Lang&id=EycBAAAAYAAJ#v=onepage&q&f=falseAndrew Lang also has a 1914 book on History of English literature: from "Beowulf" to Swinburne: books.google.com/books?pg=PA1&dq=Andrew%20Lang%20%2B%20Arabian%20Nights&id=DhRAAAAAYAAJ&output=text
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Post by Stormrider on Mar 7, 2011 7:28:36 GMT -6
Brother, I have to quit my job so I can read everything I want to read now!
I have to finish BOLT1, start BOLT2, The Notion Club Papers, all the Color Fairy Books, plus two books my Mother-in-Law gave me, and the new Jean M. Auel Earth Children book that finally will be out, and the new George RR Martin book that will also be out soon (both JMA and GRRM have taken years to get these out).
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Post by Andorinha on Jan 14, 2014 21:00:59 GMT -6
Aragorn prefigured by Oswald Idling??? www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2522449/Amazing-story-Anglo-Saxon-warrior-saint-struggle-claim-rightful-place-king-inspired-Tolkiens-Aragorn.htmlHmmm I always figured "The Once and Future King" mythos was probably the start of Aragorn… Apparently the author of a book on Oswald, Adams, seems to be overstating this thesis -- he has no quotes from Tolkien or the people who knew him to connect Aragorn with Oswald. Keeping in mind that Aragorn was originally an "Outsider" hobbit named Trotter, and the Oswald connection looks mighty slim, just an angle for Adams to attract attention to his biography of Oswald? Lots of Princes were chased off their ancestral thrones only to return a bit later and reclaim the regal power -- so to demonstrate an Aragorn - Oswald connection I'd need some hard data, like a footnote in Tolkien's own writings...
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Post by Stormrider on Jan 15, 2014 7:04:09 GMT -6
Too bad we can't ask Christopher Tolkien his take on this king. PerhapsTolkien had read about him in his studies since he had studied that time period and mythologies of that period. But who knows, many tings influenced Tolkien. It could just be a coincidence and how many other kings may have had the same situation? Back in those days, no Ruler could feel safe and secure in his regal seat!
But you are right, I don't see any quotes mentioned to corroborate this guy's article. And Trotter, as the original Aragorn, does rather put a whammy on his reasoning. Heck, a triumphantly returning king after being unseated due to his father's death is a really cool theme no matter how you look at it.
I liked the beauty of the Bible in the link. It was gorgeous!
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Post by fanuidhol on Jan 15, 2014 9:00:02 GMT -6
Unfortunately, all my books are packed up and under my bed. (Building an addition to the house).
But, I did google search Oswald and Tolkien. In the Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics lecture, Tolkien talks about a "what if". What if there was a poem written about St. Oswald? He discusses different ways that poem might be written. So, basically I found a connection. LOL The word Oswald is written on the same page as the word Beowulf. We know that Beowulf influenced Tolkien.
More seriously, however, the fact that Oswald is a Roman Catholic saint does increase the likelihood of minor influence. There are a number of Roman Catholic saint kings. Some of those were exiled from their kingdoms. And some of those previously exiled succeeded in uniting adjoining kingdoms with their own. But, that list is short, especially if you eliminate all but those from Great Britain.
If Trotter remained instead of morphing into Aragorn, we would have an entirely different book. Trotter was not an exiled king, outsider though he was.
Do I think that Tolkien said to himself "I think I'll create a character based on St. Oswald"? No. I think Tolkien used the history he knew and loved and used it in the soup of his story.
Fan
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Post by Andorinha on Jan 15, 2014 22:10:50 GMT -6
Good research, Fan -- helps put it in context.
Stormy you mean the Lindisfarne Book? Yeah very nice!
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Post by fanuidhol on Jul 3, 2016 8:49:19 GMT -6
For several weeks now, I have been perusing Tales Before Tolkien edited by Douglas A Adams, picking out a story to read here and there. I just finished "Puss-Cat Mew" by E H Knatchbull-Hugessen. It was written to "explain" the nursery rhyme of the same name: "Puss-cat Mew jumped over a coal; In her best petticoat burnt a great hole; Puss-cat Mew shan't have any milk Till her best petticoat's mended with silk." Tolkien wrote about the story in Letter #319 in which he talked about childhood memories rising to the surface and "differently applied". He then mentioned being fond of this story, which was read to him prior to 1900. There are some striking similarities to several of Tolkien's works. But, I will leave some time before commenting further, in order to allow others to read "Puss-Cat Mew" if they so wish. Free: gutenberg.net.au/ebooks07/0700661h.html
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Post by Stormrider on Jul 3, 2016 15:46:13 GMT -6
This is a pretty lengthy little tale! I'm reading it now.
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Post by Stormrider on Jul 4, 2016 7:30:45 GMT -6
This reminded me a bit of Grimm's Fairy Tales. Going off into forbidden woods to have strange adventures. I dont remember if any magical good fairies ever helped anyone in the Grimm's tales.
I liked the names for the Ogres and Dwarves. Gandleperry, Grindbones, Smashman. The curse words are funny too. Simple clean words were used and is refreshing after listening to today's language. Even the witch's curse "anthropophagus demon" is mild. I have to look that word up! Maybe it isnt that mild!
What kind of writing style is this? I know there are different types but I never took any classes in school that defined writing styles.
It always seems in Grimm's tales that people, particularly children, were victims of witches and wolves, etc. And were eaten or baked into gingerbread. Several children and adults too were chomped on by the ogres.
* anthropophagus = maneater, cannibal So not really a swear word but rather a descriptive word.
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