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Post by Stormrider on Dec 12, 2021 17:09:42 GMT -6
I am going to attempt to read this story since it takes place during Christmas/New Years. I've never read it before and am not very good at reading prose, so we will see how I do!
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 12, 2021 19:06:45 GMT -6
This huge Green Knight and his gigantic green horse just ride right into King Arthur's court while they are celebrating Yule & New Years.
Everyone is stunned and silenced by the intrusion and the size and color of the knight and steed.
King Arthur welcomes him and introduces himself and asks the knight what he wants. The Green Knight says it was not his plan or errand to come there. But the renown and honor of King Arthur and his Round Table of Knights has drawn the green knight there.
He says he did not come to fight like in war, is not even dressed in battle wear. But he wants to be granted a game which is his right. But looking around, he doesn't wish to fight against the knights he sees in Arthur's service because they are feeble and no match for him. So, of course, Arthur decides he will fight the Green Knight himself.
What nerve! He rudely barges into a merry, peaceful celebration and insults Arthur and his Knights. He doesn't feel they are worthy of their fame and renown.
Arthur, of course, has to defend the honor of his kingdom and knights by taking the challenge. But, Sir Gawain, Arthur's nephew, steps in and says it is unfitting for the King to take the challenge, and Gawain is the weakest and feablest and would be the least of the knights and no loss to the kingdom if he lost the fight.
Okay, so very honorable for Gawain to step in, but it seems he is expecting defeat from the start. If he is so weak and feable, why shouldn't another stronger more fit knight take the challenge? Also odd that Arthur would agree, too.
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Post by Andorinha on Dec 12, 2021 22:12:35 GMT -6
Hmmm, I wonder if Gawain is being sarcastic here? Or is he really that humble in his character? I'll have to refresh myself on this tale...
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 13, 2021 18:44:41 GMT -6
I think he may not be as weak as he makes out. I think he wants to demonstrate that he is less important to the realm than Arthur. The Green Knight seems ok with the switch, too. I'd think any of the Knights would have been fit enough to challenge the GK.
WHAT THE HECK? Gawain cut off his head! And the GK picked it up! Gee that was easy! LOL! But, more challenge? Go to the Green Chapel and find the GK. A year goes by and it is the next Yule. Why wait a year, I wonder. Anyway, the next Yule, Gawain sets out clad in armour to protect himself. There is a Mass for him before he goes. A huge send off from all in the court. He is really decked out, even his steed, and gold weapons.
What is the significance of the number five? 5 senses, 5 fingers, 5 Wounds Christ suffered on the Cross, 5 Joys, and the fifth five: free-giving, friendliness, chastity, chivalry, and piety. All these 5's were "hasped" upon Gawain. Fastened to him? On his armour by symbols?
Traveling far and wide, no one has seen the GK nor heard of the Green Chapel. Trail gone cold after waiting a year?
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 14, 2021 15:32:31 GMT -6
I did look to see if there was a TR Study on Sir Gawain and the Green Knight but didn't see anything.
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Post by Andorinha on Dec 15, 2021 4:26:28 GMT -6
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Post by Andorinha on Dec 15, 2021 11:13:50 GMT -6
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 15, 2021 15:09:16 GMT -6
Thanks, Andy. Great links!
It is tricky for me reading the text and poems as interpreted from the original text. I think I didn't do too badly in my reading. I am getting the gyst with some confusion.
So the Green Knight just bared his neck and allowed Sir Gawain to lopp it off? This really baffles me. There must be more meaning in this and the GK's ability to pick up his head, still talk, and ride away.
Perhaps Sir Gawain did not wait another year to set out as I thought in my first reading. Your first link gives a modern reading and maybe it is just a comment on how a year goes by rather than it actually going by before Sir Gawain sets out. He does set out that same evening after the beheading after all of Arthur's feast and celebration has ended ? ? ?
Ah ... The pentangle is a symbol representing all the 5 points. I was confused on what this was about. I've been looking up quite a few words in JRRT's translation. Looking up the medeviel meanings.
Religion is very important to Sir Gawain by all the symbolic meaning of his pentangle. Also he is very nobel, virtuous, and honorable.
I haven't read your second link about Tolkien yet. And only read the first link's modern interpretation up to as far as I have read in the interpretation. I don't want to spoil the story and my challenge to understand the original interpretation!
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Post by Andorinha on Dec 16, 2021 15:43:52 GMT -6
Still reading the various texts -- will have some matters to discuss a bit later...
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Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Dec 17, 2021 17:10:17 GMT -6
I love Sir Gawain and the Green Knight! I'm a big fan of Arthurian legends. So the Green Knight just bared his neck and allowed Sir Gawain to lopp it off? This really baffles me. There must be more meaning in this and the GK's ability to pick up his head, still talk, and ride away. If I recall, the bargain is that the challenger gets one free attack and the Green Knight is allowed to duplicate this. Gawain, thinking to end the battle quickly, chops his head off. But the Green Knight is a supernatural creature. He was counting on this and just picks his head back up and says they will meet again in a year's time. This means that Gawain has doomed himself because now the Green Knight is allowed to chop HIS head off at their next meeting. But honor demands that Gawain keep his word, even if it means riding off to his death. As far as there being more meaning to the head-chopping motif, there are lots of theories about what the Green Knight represents and what influenced the poet. Some link him to pagan nature gods or the Green Man design found on a lot of medieval churches. There are other theories as well but its been a while since my English major days when I studied this stuff. Has anyone seen the movie The Green Knight that came out this year? It's a bit slow and artsy at times so maybe not everyone's bag. But I thought it was a really good adaptation of the poem.
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 18, 2021 8:51:41 GMT -6
Thanks, Freddie. This explains a lot! Oooo! I didn't catch the part that the Green Knight could do the same to Sir Gawain! Now this should be interesting!
And there was a years time span before Sir Gawain went off to find the Green Knight.
I didn't realize there was a movie. After I read this tale, I'm going to see if I can find the movie somewhere. Perhaps a zooming the movies is in order!
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Post by Stormrider on Dec 19, 2021 8:44:43 GMT -6
After fighting many critters, dragons, wolves, trolls, etc., Sir Gawain has found a castle and has been welcomed as a guest. He is greatly honored by the residents and treated like he is a king.
Even King Arthur's castle is friendly and accommodating to travelers and guests. It seems everyone is happy to have visitors. Were kingdoms so far apart that travellers were welcomed eagerly? For news from whence they came?
Oh! And Sir Gawain is going hunting with the people from the castle. And good news! The Green Chapel is only two miles away.
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Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Dec 19, 2021 23:53:22 GMT -6
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Post by Stormrider on Jan 5, 2022 11:37:24 GMT -6
I finally found more time to continue reading. The castle that is so gracious to Sir Gawain is only 2 miles away from the green Knights chapel.
Everyone is extremely good to Sir Gawain. The Lord goes off hunting every day and his Lady goes to Gawain's room and tries to seduce him? Gawain is a good boy and refuses courteously by not insulting her and out right refusing her. This goes on for days. Lord hunting, Lady trying to seduce. There is still a lot of kissing going on with Gawain & the Lord and Gawain & the Lady! Finally she gives Gawain her girdle to hide under his clothing to protect him.
Finally, New Years Day arrives and the Lord sends Gawain off with a scout to take him to the Green Chapel. The scout warns him no one has ever enter the property without being killed and leaves Gawain to go it alone.
So Gawain finally meets the Green Knight and they have their battle. Kind of a let down. It seems the Green Knight was the Lord after all and he and his Lady were trying to set Gawain up? But Gawain was too honorable and virtuous so he wasn't killed. And the GK/Lord loved Gawain for so being.
Did I get that right?
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Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Jan 10, 2022 11:15:30 GMT -6
Yes, pretty much. The Green Knight was enchanted by Morgan le Fay so the whole thing was a trap for one of Arthur's knights. They were testing his honor by having Lord Bertilak go out hunting and his wife trying to seduce Gawain. But Gawain resists and maintains his honor. His one misstep is concealing the magic sash. Lord Bertilak said he would give Gawain whatever he caught during his hunts if Gawain gives him whatever he receives that day. Hence the chaste kisses, since that was all he would allow Lady Bertilak to give him when she tried to seduce him.
He doesn't give Bertilak the magic sash though so that was his one momentary lapse of honor. The Green Knight nicks Gawain slightly with his ax for this. But Bertilak forgives him since Gawain understandably didn't want to die and acted honorably through the other tests.
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