Post by MajahTR on Jun 2, 2004 7:49:53 GMT -6
This was a good thread with some thought provoking posts...what say you?
original started on 3/03/2002
I think it was very clever of Tolkien to write The Hobbit as if he was talking to the reader and by assuming that the reader knew some of the things he, the writer, knew by using "of course" and "as you probably know." While still being told the story, the reader is brought in as if he already is familiar with the Hobbits, Middle Earth, and its peculiarities. Because we didn't really know anything, it was a good way to give us the details while acting as if we knew it all already. Tolkien treated the reader as if he was a dear friend.
I like the character development of Bilbo, too. He is very set in his ways, inadventurous, and unworldly in the beginning of the story. As little by little things begin to happen to him during his adventure, he learns to adjust his ways, becomes more observant and inventive in the situation he is in, learns a great deal about the outside world and the different peoples, and maintains his honesty and sense of fair play. He could have become greedy but he didn't. He learned to enjoy his new friends, appreciate his new insights, and did not let his new found wealth ruin his nature. And he learned that there was more to himself than he thought! When he returned to the Shire, he was pretty much the same old Bilbo as far as his old habits were concerned, but he was much wiser and wealthier.
Stormrider
Stormrider, don't you think the adventure changed Bilbo? I get the feeling that when he returned to Bag End he settled in again as well as he could but he never felt quite at home there as he had before. Although he lasted longer than Frodo (perhaps because his adventure was not as harrowing and the Ring did not have as much chance to exert its power on him) eventually he had to leave, first to go live with the Elves and then to the Grey Havens. I do not the effect of the Ring alone caused this. After the adventure and seeing the "wide world" he seemed more restless and less satisfied with the mundane (he used the Ring to avoid the people he didn't want to see--sometimes I wish I had a Ring like that ). In addition, his neighbors noticed a difference in him and he seemed not to "fit in" any more. Does anyone else see this change in Bilbo?
MusicMom
I think Bilbo did change somewhat as far as hiding from people with the Ring, having odd visitors at anytime or day and enjoying their company, perhaps itching to go on another adventure. But his daily habits had not changed, that is what I was refering to. He still liked his tea time and the comforts of home. He didn't get pompous or snooty because of his money and riches. He did, however, become a good story-teller from all of his experiences.
He still didn't like some of his relatives and neighbors and the Ring helped him hide from them when he wanted to. As far as people thinking he was odd, I interpreted it as having strange guests all the time and putting up with their comings and goings. I guess the way he had vanished at the end of his party was pretty weird, too.
Bilbo didn't really go on any other adventures (that I remember) until he gave up his Ring to Frodo and went to Retire in Rivendell. Then because he was a Ring-bearer and had side effects like the other Ring owners, he went to the Grey Havens. I don't think he had really planned that trip--is was just a cause of having owned the Ring and the removal of all things pertaining to the old life before the Ring's destruction.
Stormrider
In his later years Bilbo had a decidedly unsettling effect on his younger relations. They were interested in tales of adventures to an extent that is unusual in hobbits. And when their chance came, they headed off into the wild without concern for pocket handkerchiefs. The pre-adventure Bilbo never would have had this kind of effect on others. Something about him must have changed.
megn1
I agree with you MusicMom.I think when Bilbo came back from the adventure he was almost a diferent hobbit.I think he realized that he could do something more then just sit at home because he basicaly saved the dwarves from almost everything.No wonder he could not fit in enymore.That would be great to have a ring like that.When you feel like it you just disapear.
Galadriel
original started on 3/03/2002
I think it was very clever of Tolkien to write The Hobbit as if he was talking to the reader and by assuming that the reader knew some of the things he, the writer, knew by using "of course" and "as you probably know." While still being told the story, the reader is brought in as if he already is familiar with the Hobbits, Middle Earth, and its peculiarities. Because we didn't really know anything, it was a good way to give us the details while acting as if we knew it all already. Tolkien treated the reader as if he was a dear friend.
I like the character development of Bilbo, too. He is very set in his ways, inadventurous, and unworldly in the beginning of the story. As little by little things begin to happen to him during his adventure, he learns to adjust his ways, becomes more observant and inventive in the situation he is in, learns a great deal about the outside world and the different peoples, and maintains his honesty and sense of fair play. He could have become greedy but he didn't. He learned to enjoy his new friends, appreciate his new insights, and did not let his new found wealth ruin his nature. And he learned that there was more to himself than he thought! When he returned to the Shire, he was pretty much the same old Bilbo as far as his old habits were concerned, but he was much wiser and wealthier.
Stormrider
Stormrider, don't you think the adventure changed Bilbo? I get the feeling that when he returned to Bag End he settled in again as well as he could but he never felt quite at home there as he had before. Although he lasted longer than Frodo (perhaps because his adventure was not as harrowing and the Ring did not have as much chance to exert its power on him) eventually he had to leave, first to go live with the Elves and then to the Grey Havens. I do not the effect of the Ring alone caused this. After the adventure and seeing the "wide world" he seemed more restless and less satisfied with the mundane (he used the Ring to avoid the people he didn't want to see--sometimes I wish I had a Ring like that ). In addition, his neighbors noticed a difference in him and he seemed not to "fit in" any more. Does anyone else see this change in Bilbo?
MusicMom
I think Bilbo did change somewhat as far as hiding from people with the Ring, having odd visitors at anytime or day and enjoying their company, perhaps itching to go on another adventure. But his daily habits had not changed, that is what I was refering to. He still liked his tea time and the comforts of home. He didn't get pompous or snooty because of his money and riches. He did, however, become a good story-teller from all of his experiences.
He still didn't like some of his relatives and neighbors and the Ring helped him hide from them when he wanted to. As far as people thinking he was odd, I interpreted it as having strange guests all the time and putting up with their comings and goings. I guess the way he had vanished at the end of his party was pretty weird, too.
Bilbo didn't really go on any other adventures (that I remember) until he gave up his Ring to Frodo and went to Retire in Rivendell. Then because he was a Ring-bearer and had side effects like the other Ring owners, he went to the Grey Havens. I don't think he had really planned that trip--is was just a cause of having owned the Ring and the removal of all things pertaining to the old life before the Ring's destruction.
Stormrider
In his later years Bilbo had a decidedly unsettling effect on his younger relations. They were interested in tales of adventures to an extent that is unusual in hobbits. And when their chance came, they headed off into the wild without concern for pocket handkerchiefs. The pre-adventure Bilbo never would have had this kind of effect on others. Something about him must have changed.
megn1
I agree with you MusicMom.I think when Bilbo came back from the adventure he was almost a diferent hobbit.I think he realized that he could do something more then just sit at home because he basicaly saved the dwarves from almost everything.No wonder he could not fit in enymore.That would be great to have a ring like that.When you feel like it you just disapear.
Galadriel