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Post by Desi Baggins on May 31, 2004 7:18:52 GMT -6
Imagine you were at the Council of Elrond and that you were Elrond and had to decide who was going to be in the Fellowship.....Who would you have chosen from everyone that was there? (Remember this decision making goes into Chapter- The Ring Goes South)
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Post by Desi Baggins on Jun 4, 2004 19:30:45 GMT -6
The list of attendies: Elrond Frodo Gandalf Bilbo Glorfindel Glóin<br>Strider/Aragorn Gimli Erestor Galdor Legolas Boromir Others that were un-named ______________________________________
Folk present before the Fellowship set out: Merry Pippin Elladan Elrohir ****************************************
If I were the one to choose the Fellowship I do not think I would have choosen Legolas. I read the Hobbit first and that gave me a bad impression of the Mirkwood elves. Also the fact that they managed to let Gollum escape left me feeling they were not to be trusted. I think I would have sent one of Elrond's sons or both of them (Elladan & Elrohir). Also I am not sure I would have sent Boromir. He was just so focused on only his peoples fate and not all of ME. Plus he said some remarks about Aragorn. After Aragorn saving the Hobbits and learning that Gandalf had already been working so closly with him I felt strongly towards him. Plus whhen Gandalf talks about going to Denethor to read the scripts, Denethor is rude and that gave me bad opinions about the people from Gondor.
I am sure I would have still sent the 4 Hobbits, Frodo volunteered and you could not stop the others. I still would have sent Aragorn and Gimli too.
What other thoughts do the rest of you have on this?
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Post by Stormrider on Jun 7, 2004 5:38:04 GMT -6
I read FOTR first and not The Hobbit! So I did not know anything about the way the Mirkwood Elves had treated Bilbo! I had felt that this was Legolas' chance to make good on loosing Gollum and perhaps finding him again along the way!
However, I always liked Glorfindel and would have liked to have seen him go with the Fellowship. Elladan and Elrohir would have been good Elves to have, too. But since the Elves realized that they would soon be going into the West and that the Time of Man was at hand, I don't think Elrond would have chosen any of these Elves for the Fellowship.
Boromir was going to be going home and he was the one who had come to Elrond seeking the answer to his dream and asking for help. I don't think he could have been denied his part in the Fellowship. I did not trust him either until he took his stand against the orcs to save Merry and Pippin.
Merry and Pippin did not know that they would be going right away either. They went along at the last moment (according to the book anyway) and if I remember correctly! But I am glad that they went.
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Post by Greenleaf on Jun 7, 2004 14:05:48 GMT -6
Well, this is a matter I had not thought of before. But now that you brought it up, I don't think I could leave anyone out of the Fellowship. Elrond (or Tolkien himself for that matter) must have had his reasons for choosing the ones he did. I just opened the book and saw that he said Legolas and Gimli were willing to go. Does that mean they were the only ones who volunteered among Elves and Dwarves? I don't know. Or maybe he did not want to choose a mighty Elf like Glorfindel because he would probably attract Sauron's attention.
I also read the Hobbit first and didn't have a very good impression of the Mirkwood Elves, especially regarding the way they treated the Dwarves. But we shouldn't condemn every individual because of that. Plus, when they failed to prevent Gollum's escape, it wasn't due to irresponsibility but because they took pity on him and didn't have the heart to keep him forever in the dungeons. Anyway, I think Legolas proved to be trustworhty and reliable and would follow Frodo and Aragorn to the end, as he did (and as everybody else did). Sorry, I had to defend Legolas, couldn't help it. After all, I have a soft spot for him; maybe because he was the one who went to the quest and we somehow get to know the Elves through him. If it were another Elf in his place, I might feel the same for him, too.
As for Boromir, I didn't like him and didn't trust him at first but then I changed my mind. He proved to be very loyal at the end, sacrificing his life for Merry and Pippin.
I think Tolkien put each and everyone in the Fellowship on purpose. It was not accidental that almost all of them (except Gandalf, and Boromir who was the future Steward of Gondor) were rather ordinary people. The Hobbits certainly were. Gimli was no Dwarf prince. Legolas, even though son of a king, was a rather simple Wood-elf, compared to the mighty Elves of old. As for Aragorn, he might be the heir of Isildur, but he was just a Ranger at the beginning and he had to go through fire and water to fulfil his destiny. Given all these, Tolkien, I think, wanted to show that even the smallest people, and not only leaders of men, have the power within themselves to shape the fate of the world and make history. Everyone of the Nine Companions proved their worth and had their own part to play in the scheme of things. (Even Gollum had an important part to play at the end; I think Gandalf said that.)
All in all, I like the Fellowship and love the story as it is. I wouldn't like to change anything or anyone.
BUT - if I were Elrond I don't think I would be so wise. I would probably not choose Boromir (I said I didn't trust him at first) and I might even leave Merry and Pippin out. I'd rather opt for Glorfindel or Elladan and Elrohir. I'm glad, though, that things happened the way they did.
Hey, this is a great discussion, Desi. Thanks for starting it!
Greenleaf
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Post by Desi Baggins on Jun 8, 2004 7:00:22 GMT -6
Even though I would have left Legolas out, I am glad he volunteered and went with the Fellowship. Reading about Legolas in LotR made me realize that the Mirkwood elves were not bad at all. My view from the Hobbit was that they were only concerned about them selves, but from LotR I discovered they were willing to help all of ME!
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Post by Stormrider on Jun 11, 2004 6:12:35 GMT -6
I have the HoME series and have not read much of it yet. It would be interesting to read through all of the rewrites of how Tolkien shaped and formed his story. Perhaps we would get more insite on how he chose the members of the Fellowship through the rewritings.
I am going to have to check out The Treason of Isengard since The Council of Elrond is in that book. It was interesting to note in The Return of the Shadow that Aragorn was at first a hobbit named Trotter who wore wooden shoes because his feet were hurt from tortures he endured by Sauron.
So from all of the rewrites, I think we will find that Tolkien took great care, thought, and consideration on his choices for the Fellowship.
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Post by Greenleaf on Jun 11, 2004 8:32:12 GMT -6
Stormrider:
Unfortunately I don't have the HoMe series. I hope I'll get it one day, though. If you ever have the time to check out The Council of Elrond, I'd love to know whether Tolkien contemplated a different composition of the Fellowship at first, or whether he had chosen from the beginning the Nine Companions we know from LotR.
Greenleaf
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Post by Stormrider on Jun 12, 2004 8:38:37 GMT -6
I read through the chapters (there were two of them!) on The Council of Elrond and The Ring Goes South in The Treason of Isengard book.
At first only seven were going--Merry and Pippin were to return to the Shire. Aragorn was still Trotter but he was a man at this point. Legolas was an Elf named Galdor and everyone else had their final names.
Most of the two chapters on The Council were about building the structure of what was discussed in the final chapter by the members of the Council. Some of the discussions were moved around and added to or edited out. oh....and Gondor was at first called "Ond"!
When I got to The Ring Goes South, I found out that it was Tolkien's intention to have nine members in the Fellowship to counter the Nine Evil Servants. He also wanted to represent all the peoples of Middle Earth in the Fellowship, too. He now added Erestor as the half-elf representative. So now he had 8 members and Merry and Pippin were not included in the 8 so he was thinking that Pippin would return to the Shire and Merry would go along. So he eventually dropped Erestor and let both Merry and Pippin join.
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Post by Desi Baggins on Jun 12, 2004 8:56:38 GMT -6
Interesting info!
It would have been different having a half elf go along. I am very glad Merry and Pippin got to go. I can't imagine the story without them.
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Post by Greenleaf on Jun 12, 2004 17:25:15 GMT -6
Thanks for checking out the book, Stormrider. That was really interesting information. I wonder what the story would be like if Merry and Pippin were left out. I suppose a lot of things would be totally different or not have happened at all. It would be interesting to have wise Erestor in the Fellowship but I enjoyed so much Merry and Pippin's characters and I'm glad Tolkien eventually decided to let them go. I'm also glad he didn't separate them and send poor light-hearted immature young Pippin back home.
Greenleaf
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Post by Fangorn on Jun 13, 2004 0:55:03 GMT -6
Of course sending Glorfindel would have been a wise choice. He was one of the few Elves that could ride openly against ALL of the nine. But in that very statement, as was said earlier, perhaps 'openly' was not the way to go. Glorfindel was of such Lordly countenance, he veritably 'glowed'. Not to mention those bells on Asfaloth are not exactly 'covert'. Added to the fact that the nine just encountered him by the Fords, and probably know of his history, makes him finally, a bad choice.
Aragorn may have kept his true nature hidden, even after weathertop, since his dress and manner could simply be that of a very brave man. Sending all the hobbits may have been the wisest choice, since the Witchking knew of the name 'Baggins', but probably, not needing to know much of Hobbits in the past, they could not differentiate one from another. This is lent creadence in the scene with Pippin and the palantir. Sauron thought that Pip may have been the Hobbit that had the ring.
No doubt Sauron would have been aware of Thranduil, so his presence in the Fellowship would also have garnered attention. But it is concievable that his son Legolas may have been much lower on his radar. Gimili, and the Dwarves as a whole I do not think would matter much, save if it was the present 'King under the Mountain'
Boromir, on the other hand, is a different story. I think it is likely Sauron knew him, especially after the many assaults against Osgiliath. Too bad Faramir was not the messanger to the council, since I think he would have made the better choice.
Interesting speculations, all. But as they say..............it was only a fools hope, anyway......
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Post by Hikaru on Jun 13, 2004 22:52:41 GMT -6
Fascinating thread! I'm one of those who read the trilogy before the Hobbit and didn't know anything about the Mirkwood elves. Legolas does a great job IMO of redeeming his people--that is, if allowing Gollum to escape could really be considered their fault. That slimy little critter would have found a way through pretty much ANYTHING to get to his Preciousssss! Legolas' friendship with Gimli shows that the rift between Dwarves and Elves can be healed. Each character in the Fellowship has some sort of lesson to learn or growth to achieve. The professor developed each of them quite well, I think, which of course is (partly) why I love the books.
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