Elrond and Elros

[Stormrider]

I thought it would be interesting to take a look at Elrond and Elros' Family Tree.

Elrond and Elros are at the left. Going to the right are their parents, then their parents, etc. It is a bit difficult to read since I had to align everything in a table and some things didn't line up perfectly.

You can see that they have a very diverse lineage including Maia, several varieties of Elf, and all Three Houses of the Edain.

I have more to say about this, but need to gather my thoughts for a couple of days and will return to this thread then.

.	.	.	.	Hareth of the Haladin	Halmir	.	.	3rd House
.	.	.	Huor	+	.	.	.	.
.	.	.	.	Galdor	Hador	Marach	.	2nd House
.	.	Tuor	+	.	.	.	.	.
.	.	.	Rían	Belegund	Bregolas	Bregor	Bëor the Old	1st House
.	Eärendil	.	.	.	.	.	.	.
.	.	+	Turgon Noldor	Fingolfin Noldor	Finwë Noldor	.	.	.
.	.	Idril	+	+	+	.	.	.
Elrond	+	.	Elenwë Vanyar	?	Indis Vanyar	.	.	.
Elros (Mortality)	.	.	.	Elwë (Thingol) Teleri/Sindar	.	.	.	.
.	.	.	Lúthien (Mortality)	+	.	.	.	.
.	Elwing	Dior	+	Melian Maia	.	.	.	.
.	.	+	.	Barahir	Bregor	Bëor the Old	.	1st House
.	.	Nimloth Sindar	Beren	+	.	.	.	.
.	.	.	.	Emeldir	.	.	.	.

[Andorinha]

This is really helpful, Stormrider! I like being able to chart my way through the relationships. Looking forward to your further developments here.

[Androga Erindalant]

The family tree looks great, Stormrider! The entire mix of the 3 Elven families and the 3 Human families is very confusing. You have made an easy oversight of it. Very helpful to have it close when reading the Silmarillion!

[Stormrider]

I went to Encyclopedia of Arda for a little help with this part.

According to Encyclopedia of Arda, the brothers are 10/32 Sindar, 5/32 Vanyar, and 3/32 Noldor totalling 18/32 Elf, 12/32 Edain, and 2/32 Maiar making them a bit more Elf than anything else. Anyway, Tolkien still called them Half-Elven.

There were two unions between Elf and Edain in the family tree of Elrond and Elros. They were between Beren and Lúthien and Tuor and Idril.

If I remember correctly, Beren died and Lúthien grieved for him and sang her song to the Valar who granted him his life back but Lúthien would also have to become mortal.

After Maeglin betrayed Turgon and the people of Gondolin, Tuor and Idril and the remnant of their people fled to the mouths of the Sirion. Then Tuor in his old age, built a ship Eärrámë and set sail with Idril. They departed into the West and were never seen again although Eärendil searched for them. Did Idril become mortal, too? Or did Tuor have a much longer life than most mortals? Or did Tuor get a special place among the immortal?

After Eärendil and Elwing went to the Undying Lands to plead for the Elves and ask for help from the Valar, they were not punished but were given the choice and also their sons to chose between immortality and mortality.

Elwing chose immortality and because she chose immortality, Eärendil did likewise (although his heart was more akin to the Edain). Elrond chose immortality and Elros chose mortality.

I was looking through my books to see if there was a reason that Elrond and Elros chose as they did but could not find anything specific.

I thought perhaps, Elrond and Elros might have lived a thousand or so years before they had to make the choice, but from what I can tell timewise, they were still rather young in the lifespan of Elves.

The books state that Elros lived to be 500 years old and lay down to die in the year 442 SA, he ruled for 410 years in Númenor. Therefore, Elrond and Elros would have been born in the year 525 FA. (I was reading in The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales when I found this information, but I did not mark the pages or chapters.)

Therefore, Elros must have been 58 years old (or near that--I am assuming it was at the turn of the ages) when he made his decision to become mortal. I thought perhaps he had a thousand years to grow tired of immortality and that had been his reason for becoming mortal, but that is not the case. So why would he chose to do so? I did not read that there was an Edain woman that influenced his decision.

For that matter, why did Elrond chose immortality? How did each brother feel about the others choice?

[Stormrider]

I was thinking about this all day. What do you think it is like to be Elvish or Edain? Does each race see, hear, smell, feel, think, and sense things in different ways?

Do those who are half-elven sense and interpret things according to which half they are more prone toward?

In The Silmarillion Chapter 24 p. 249, Eärendil said to Elwing:

"Chose thou, for now I am weary of the world." And Elwing chose to be judged among the Firstborn Children of Ilúvatar, because of Lúthien; and for her sake Eärendil chose alike, though his heart was rather with the kindred of Men and the people of his father.

Eärendil was half-elven and it seems that he felt more like the Edain. He grew weary of the world. How old was Eärendil when he made this choice? How long had he been in Middle Earth to feel like he was wearying?

Perhaps being twins, Elrond and Elros genes were divided so that they each did not have half the traits of both Elf and Man. Elrond might have received many more Elvish genes and Elros many more human genes. Therefore, it would be natural for each of them to sense which kindred they truly were fit for!

[Androga Erindalant]

admin said:

After Maeglin betrayed Turgon and the people of Gondolin, Tuor and Idril and the remnant of their people fled to the mouths of the Sirion. Then Tuor in his old age, built a ship Eärrámë and set sail with Idril. They departed into the West and were never seen again although Eärendil searched for them. Did Idril become mortal, too? Or did Tuor have a much longer life than most mortals? Or did Tuor get a special place among the immortal?

I remember Tolkien wrote in the Silmaril that Eärendil was the only sailor who ever reached the shores of Valinor after the Valar shut it down, and before they allowed the Eldar to turn back. So that would imply that Tuor must have gotten lost in streams of those islands before Valinor, or sailed somewhere else. I think Tuor would at least have earned the long life of the Númenorean. What happened to Idril, I have no idea. If she died she should have gotten in the Halls of Mandos.

I've posted something about the differences between Elves and Men in the Silmarillion Study (Ch1). Elves must have had a different time perspective than Men. Men live short lives, only up to a few hundred years (or shorter!), so they will count time in years (we're in the year 2006). But Elves live forever, just as nature does. In nature, the change that happens in one year is hardly noticeable - change happends in hundreds or thousands of years. I think Elves will have the same feeling on time, and they'll count it more through centuries or Ages (we're in the Fourth Age).

As far as how Elrond and Elros made their different decision, I don't know the answer. Difference in genes might be a logical answer, just as difference in their characters. I know from experience siblings can show different behaviours, even while they come from the same parents.

As for Elros's age, I remember reading (in the Silmarillion and/or Unfinished Tales) that the Númenorean kings could decide themselves when they passed on their throne and when they died. In the beginning they chose not to linger for too long, and lived up to 500-600 years. But they didn't stretch it, so if they had chosen this, they could have lived even longer. Afterwards, when Númenor was spoiled, the kings lived shorter (arrogance and jealousy had taken it's toll), even while they began streching life to its limits!

[Stormrider]

Androga stated:

As for Elros's age, I remember reading (in the Silmarillion and/or Unfinished Tales) that the Númenorean kings could decide themselves when they passed on their throne and when they died. In the beginning they chose not to linger for too long, and lived up to 500-600 years. But they didn't stretch it, so if they had chosen this, they could have lived even longer. Afterwards, when Númenor was spoiled, the kings lived shorter (arrogance and jealousy had taken it's toll), even while they began streching life to its limits!

Even those kings who wished to keep living for as long as they could live, would have to "give it up" eventually. Men were not meant to live on and on. If a king refused to lay down to die when he felt too weak to stay alive, I assume he would have died eventually without his consent. The aging process eventually would win out.

Rather than have an honorable death by laying himself down on his slab like the others, he would die a more human death from some human disease or frailty with all the pain and suffering. I assume the ability to lay oneself down and pass away was meant to save one from this pain and suffering. It was actually a more favorable option and more of a gift to Men than having to wait until you died the normal way.