|
Post by Stormrider on Apr 1, 2021 16:35:09 GMT -6
As far as being too light weight to give a great enough plunge into or across an enemy's body part, I can see the reasoning. But being a weak gurl myself, I would prefer a lighter sword. I think the momentum/speed would balance the lack of weight for a nice power plunge.
BUT . . .
It makes sense, Fan, Mithril was used for protection. And the new front gates to Minas Tirith would be beautiful with Mithril, Andy.
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Apr 3, 2021 23:03:49 GMT -6
Here's another theme that requires more research: on the fragility of the barrow blades.
Five swords from the Prince of Cardolan's barrow, three get ruined by the hobbits. Are these "single-use" weapons? One blow by Frodo, and his first barrow blade shatters cutting off the hand of a Barrow-wight. One word of command from the High Nazgul, and Frodo's second sword breaks. To be fair, Merry's sword seems a bit tougher -- at Parth Galen he does slice off a number of Orc hands and arms, his blade survives -- only to be melted away when he sticks it into a Nazgul. So 3/5ths of these barrow blades prove to be fairly delicate, or are hobbits simply "hard on their hardware?"
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Apr 4, 2021 6:12:38 GMT -6
Frodo's second sword and Merry's sword took on Nazgul, so those were very evil, hard-to-defeat, menacing, powerful targets even if their blades were made by the Dunedain to fight the evil of Angmar. I would think anything piercing that type of evil would melt or shatter! I wonder from what metal Eowyn's sword was made. Hers disintegrated, too.
But, if made of bronze as it seems we are leaning, bronze wasn't the strongest metal to use for swords. However, in daggers, as the Hobbits were given, Merry's dagger did fairly well against the not so powerful creatures of evil such as the Orcs. Didn't Pippin get in some jabs at Orcs alongside Merry?
I wonder how Anduril, Orcrist, or Glamdring would have faired after piercing the Witchking or another Nazgul. I would tend to think they would have melted, too.
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Apr 4, 2021 9:57:56 GMT -6
Hmmm, since the Elves Glorfindel, Legolas, Elros/ Elrohir appear to have a presence of some sort even in the "wraith-world" (FotR, p.216 217) they seem to have "no fear" of "Dead Mortals." Hence Legolas can tread the Paths of the Dead with no dread (as also can Elros and Elrohir). Having once lived in Valinor, Glorfindel does not fear even the Ringwraiths themselves, as he can "live at once in both worlds..." (Fotr, p. 216). I think, around the time of the Fall of Arnor, 1970s Third Age, Glorfindel actually chases the Nazgul King off the battlefield. Perhaps the High Elven swords like Glamdring/ Orcrist, maybe even Sting would have been unharmed if they were stuck into a Nazgul? The only specific thing I recall here is that, I think it is Aragorn who speaks: "... all blades perish that pierce that dreadful king." Found it, yes Aragorn in FotR "Flight to the Ford," p. 193. Does Aragorn have some special knowledge here? If his statement is not mere folklore and hyperbole, then I guess even swords made by the High Elves would perish if they penetrated the High Nazgul? JRRT does not mention whether this power of destroying all blades is extended to the "lesser" Nazgul as well. At any rate, Stormy I think I tend to agree with your statement concerning Elven blades: "I would tend to think they would have melted, too."
Hmmm, Eowynn's sword, I have been assuming, would be made of Iron Age steel, connecting the Rohirrim with the real life Anglo-Saxons, but I cannot recall it being specified? Need to look further here.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Apr 4, 2021 11:51:59 GMT -6
Aragorn may have had ancient lore knowledge that passed down through the ages from the Numenoreans and men of Cardolan regarding any weapon that pierced Nazgul and Dark Lords being demolished. Even though he is only 80ish, he was from a long-lived people so the lore would have been remembered and passed down pretty well.
Interesting that the elves are comfortable with the dead, but if any race was, it would most likely be elves!
Eowyn's sword should be from Celtic or Anglo-Saxson regions is my guess. Whatever type metal they used then. I have Easter company so can't look into this now.
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Apr 11, 2021 12:07:33 GMT -6
Part III "Loose Ends, Bits and Pieces"
"... Tom went up to the mound, and looked through the treasures. ... For each of the hobbits he chose a dagger, long, leaf-shaped, and keen, of marvelous workmanship, damasked with serpent-forms in red and gold. They gleamed as he drew them from their black sheaths, wrought of some strange metal, light and strong, and set with many fiery stones. Whether by some virtue these sheaths or because of the spell that lay on the mound, the blades seemed untouched by time, untrusted, sharp, glittering in the sun." (FotR, "Fog on the Barrow-Dowbs," p. 142)
Here I have a problem with determining whether Tolkien is predominantly discussing the blades themselves, or their sheaths. The blades are "long," "leaf-shaped," "damasked with serpent forms in red and gold." Or so I read this passage. But then, I think he switches to a description of the sheaths: "black," "wrought of some strange metal," "light," "strong," "set with many firey stones."
A "strange metal," black in color, "strong." Does Tolkien ever use such a metal elsewhere? The narrator of this tale, JRRT himself, seems uncertain if the pristine condition of the barrow-blades is due to some property of this "strange metal," or some other cause, like a spell of preservation cast over the barrow itself. Cast by the barrow-wight, one presumes, though possibly some spell cast by the barrow builders of Cardolan? If it was a Cardolan spell, it might have preserved the barrow's contents from aging, but it certainly was not strong enough to keep the barrow-wight from taking over the tomb. So, probably a barrow-wight spell after all?
Alternatively, we have the explanation that there was some virtue in the black-metal sheaths that kept the blades uncorrupted by time. So, what is this strange black metal?
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Apr 11, 2021 14:16:40 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by fobria on Apr 11, 2021 15:55:33 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Apr 11, 2021 19:36:52 GMT -6
I'd say "Bingo" Fobria! This paragraph explains it!
SO METEORITE IRON! AND HIS OWN GALVORN!
So Andy and I were trying to determine what real Earth ores and metals were used in the scabbard. I guess you can't claim a meteor is actually of Earth, but it fell to Earth.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Apr 11, 2021 19:47:18 GMT -6
And further quote from your link regarding GALVORN:
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Apr 11, 2021 20:06:53 GMT -6
However, the only thing that is off is the timing. Eol created the GALVORN around F.A. 316-400 and the men of Cardolan were from T.A. 861 to 1851 or later. The Barrow wights were sent to the barrows around T.A. 1636.
Perhaps the knowledge of Eol's craftsmanship survived until Cardolan? But it was an Elvish craft and would Elves have shared it with the Men of Cardolan?
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Apr 11, 2021 23:25:39 GMT -6
Yes, a double bingo, fobria! I was thinking of the black swords of Eol, and maybe Telchar's Angrist, but had completely forgotten about Galvorn! And, as you say, it is at least "in universe."
Good point, Stormy, on the vast time difference between Eol and the Cardolan Kingdom, but this black metal of Eol does give us a starting point! Sigh, more research now...
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Apr 12, 2021 5:01:28 GMT -6
I went back and bolded the paragraph in my last post on GALVORN. I completely missed the comment that Eol's craftsmanship knowledge may have been lost thru the ages!
But hopefully not. It is a long time between ages.
*Sigh* ? ? ? But Andy, I thought you loved to research!
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Apr 12, 2021 8:51:40 GMT -6
LOL, yeah, but I look too much like Hermione Granger if I admit I liked/ and still like taking tests, doing term papers...
If your quote is directly from JRRT, that would simplify things, he does not use Galvorn after Eöl, but if it is a later writer/ commentator just guessing?
OK "Happy-happy! More research required!"
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Apr 12, 2021 8:56:50 GMT -6
That's from the same source, Tolkien's Gateway, that Fobria gave, but I clicked on the word "galvorn". So not sure if that is from JRRT or the person who posted this info on Tolkien's Gareway
|
|