|
Post by Desi Baggins on Dec 18, 2004 14:34:51 GMT -6
I have to say that I agree that I did not find the extras all that great, the were things for people that have nto read the books/movie goers so why weren't they in the theatrical release. Oh well....I am still glad the movies were made and they were done pretty darn good, but I could have done better, LOL!!!
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Dec 18, 2004 20:17:44 GMT -6
SPOILERS! SPOILERS!
I was disappointed that important quotes from the book still did not go into the extended version during some of the important scenes that had been left out during the theatrical release such as:
The complete dialog of Éowyn and the Witchking. I still wish PJ had made Éowyn into Dernhelm in the movie. I love the surprise of finding out it is Éowyn.
Ioreth saying "the hands of the King are the hands of a healer."
The fury and rage of Frodo when Gollum attacked him on Mount Doom and Frodo's curse on Gollum.
Frodo's line on Mount Doom: "I have come, but I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. "
More comments (pro and con):
I agree that the skull avalanche was unnecessary.
I did not like the way PJ did the palantír confrontation with Aragorn and Sauron....well, it was alright until the Arwen stuff and Aragorn freaking out over it in the end. He should have remained cool and kingly instead of flinging the palantír like a hot potatoe.
I liked the beer drinking contest with Gimli and Legolas...that was kind of cute.
I loved the scene after Éowyn killed the Witchking where she fought the one eyed orc and was crawling on the ground and then Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli go past killing orcs, too, and they did not even see her! (nor did she see them!)
I was a bit surprised that Éomer was shown only grieving for Éowyn and not Théoden. I would have liked to have seen them carry Éowyn and Théoden back into Minas Tirith.
And poor Merry! Everyone but Pippin forgot about him. I know Tolkien left him walk back on his own in the book, but to have everyone forget about him!
I would have liked more Houses of the Healing and Faramir and Éowyn's story. Just a couple more lines anyway.
I did like the Mouth of Sauron scene. He had a cool twitch to his movements that was an interesting addition. I did not care for Aragorn lopping his head off, but I can see how it worked for the "movie only" fans.
Well, that is all that comes to my mind right off the top of my head after seeing it once. After I get my copy for Christmas, I will watch it more closely. Then I will also watch all the extras in the set.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Dec 19, 2004 7:13:26 GMT -6
I know that because the Scouring of the Shire was not in the movies, PJ had to settle up with Sauruman and Wormtongue, but I just did not like it Legolas being the one to shoot Grima.
I still think that PJ could have cut out some of the scenes from Helm's Deep and the Pelennor Fields and then he could have fit in the Scouring.
I know...I know...Sorry to complain, but I think we all miss the Scouring.
|
|
|
Post by Magpie on Dec 19, 2004 10:04:56 GMT -6
I agree with a lot of your points, Stormrider (I was even more distracted during the second half of the movie than the first so I have only vague impressions of those scenes).
And I'm right there on the Scouring. I miss it terribly. I do understand it but...
And did any of you catch them burning extra footage in one of the extras?
ACK!!! Didn't you think that one day, they might show some of the stuff they'd shot that couldn't make the movies? I did. They burned it! (Well, maybe they didn't burn it all. We can hold out hope.)
|
|
|
Post by Vanye on Dec 19, 2004 13:03:18 GMT -6
I do not have the RotK EE, yet, but of course have long known that PJ left the "Scouring" out of the movies & I half way understand the reasoning, But I still want it in there anyway! How's that for a 'petulent brat' imitation!! No, I feel strongly that the Scouring of the Shire was integeral to the proper telling of the story & now I will tell you why, then you can all take your own shot at the question or me as the case may be! IMHO 'the Scouring' is important because i t says (to me at any rate) that if you are part of the world you must do your part, take your risks & your lumps in the end to defend it & then set right your own house in the aftermath. Because being a protected untouchable enclave has never worked in the world we live in, has it? Witness; the fall of Paris & the bombing of Dresden in WWII! I was born in the summer of 1940 so was blissfully unaware of nearly every event during WWII- Save one...VJ Day, I was 5 years old & we were picking blackberries but people were streaming past us on the road honking, shouting & generallly acting most ungrownup to my 5 year old eyes! They shouted to us that the war was over & we ought to be celebrating! the grownups in our group replied that we were celebrating in our own way! However, whenever I see old newsreel footage of the above mentioned events, I bawl! Something I don't do at the drop of a hat! But most especially the footage of Paris under the Nazis makes me realize that all that is beautiful & worth preserving in the civilized world came close to be snuffed out by 'dark cloud of evil' that hung over Western Europe in the war years! Dresden of course was a military miscalcuation (those are still w/us today unfortunately). So now back to the original discussion. The Shire had long been protected by others of the free peoples of ME. But the growing threat of power of the dark Lord had drawn even our Hobbit heroes onto the front lines of the fight to preserve the good that Sam (for one) saw to be worth fighting for! Upon their return the Hobbits find that even their beloved Shire had been brushed by the evil they had so recently battled against. Veteran fighters that they were they knew what they need do to 'Scour the Shire' of the scourge visited upon it in their absence; unlike the citizens left behind who were as yet unschooled by recent events. The retuning heroes knew that at certain points in history war is the only alternative when confronted by a pervasive evil which is no respecter of anything especially anything so innocuous or inoffensive as a peaceful community like the Shire! I also like to believe that the scouring might implant a 'cultural memory' in our beloved Hobbits to be aroused whenever evil might threaten in their future! One can hope! I sum this up by saying that "We are,indeed, all in this together". That standing aside or outside the fray is not the way to act when a true evil threatens our world or anyone's world. Of course as a History teacher I keep hoping that someone will learn something from history. Hope springs eternal! There, now it's somebody else's turn! Vanye
|
|
|
Post by Magpie on Dec 19, 2004 15:05:01 GMT -6
Well said, Vanye. I think experiencing moments in history can give us an understanding of things in ways unique from those who were spared (for me the formative event was the Vietnam War). When we think about the depths of the book (like you discussed, Vanye), PJ didn't have a chance to fully deliver, did he? lol. In the end, what we're all saying is that our beloved book contains more... is better.... plumbs deeper... and we already knew that didn't we. Oh, well. Some things need to left to words I guess.
|
|
|
Post by Desi Baggins on Dec 19, 2004 18:41:57 GMT -6
I just wish I could have walked in the shoes of anyone of the actors in the movie for just one day because the have experienced that would have been way too amazing. I must think that the actors experienced something special in doing this moving because they all still have a great friendship even after the filming was done. So these movies even being made they way they were have touch so many. But I have to say for those that have read the books they will have so much more (I do believe that the actors all read the books).
|
|
|
Post by MerlintheMad on Dec 19, 2004 20:10:58 GMT -6
I agree Vanye, that the Shire episode is essential to the full story. I doubted PJ's reasons for leaving it out: it seemed like he was copping out too easily on the excuse that it would only form an anticlimax the chief audience would not understand.
But to follow the book story would actually have presented fewer problems for PJ's project: he could have cut to Cormalen for the wind-up with Frodo and Sam getting their "great praise", where it would have made the most sense to those present: the warriors and their new king. Aragon's initial crowning could have happened there. A quick scene of his final crowning with Arwen at his side could have avoided that painfully silly reunion in front of everyone (that never washed with me: Aragon wouldn't know that Arwen was at his crowning??? Uh uh). Then the Fellowship spilits up and the Hobbits and Gandalf head north, stopping by way of Isengard to speak with a befuddled Treebeard. They find out that Saruman and Grima are gone. You don't have to have the meeting on the road. The Hobbits say goodbye to Gandalf and arrive home at the Shire; find out what is going on pretty much the way it is in the book; raise their army and trounce the baddies at Bywater: a nice surprice for the movie audience, with lots of action, short and furious, and a goodly amount of grim humor. Then in the midst of their celebrations, Saruman has his moment of grim terror by making his appearance (perhaps with Rosie Cotton held as a hostage to get out with); and when he is overpowered by our heros, and released, he aims his last kick at Grima, a la the book, and gets his throat cut by Grima, etc. A better movie ending then would have been for Frodo to admit that he must leave the Shire and go with the elves. Sam and company go to the Grey Havens to say goodbye, and you could eliminate a lot of that equally painful lingering eye contact and hugging to excess. I actually think the ending would have been no longer done this way, and a lot more interesting: and it would include that message of paying the price that the Scouring chapter drives home.
|
|
|
Post by Desi Baggins on Dec 20, 2004 6:36:52 GMT -6
(I sadly admit that I knew almost since the begining that the scouring was out ) But with out it the ending of RotK seems to get really slow and boring. I think an extra fight seen would have spiced it up and a shorter Grey Havens would have been good. I know when I went and saw the film people were leaving during that scene.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Dec 20, 2004 7:17:54 GMT -6
I have not seen the special DVD's that came with the Extended version yet....I will wait to watch those after I receive them for Christmas (I know I am getting them); but I want to go back to the comment that Magpie made about the burning of the extra film footage! That can't be true!
Are you sure it was not just the takes that were not used of scenes that were already used in the movies? You know how they shoot each scene many times so that they have several to choose from to get the best one? Perhaps it was those extra bad takes that were burned--not footage that would extend the movies' length--such as more houses of healing, the scouring of the shire, Aragorn and Gandalf finding the sappling white tree, the "real" end to Saurman and Grima, etc.
Actually, I just can't imagine that they would want to burn any footage at all! I would have kept every last foot of film that I had shot in my film storage archive just for keepssake!
|
|
|
Post by Fangorn on Dec 23, 2004 10:23:33 GMT -6
This just in from TORN:
Rasputin the Evil Balrog writes: I just wanted to make sure everyone knows that there are two Easter Eggs on the Extended Edition of ROTK. The bogus interview of Elijah Wood conducted by Dominic Monaghan (as German journalist Hans Jensen) that PJ mentioned at the Oscar Party was already confirmed by your earlier report from Britain and is found on the first disc of the film.
On the second disc there is a second Easter Egg, though, that I haven't seen anyone mention. It's this year's MTV Movie Awards skit featuring Vince Vaughan and Ben Stiller taking a meeting with Peter Jackson to pitch their ideas for a sequel to Lord of the Rings ("The Ring was destroyed." "But what if it wasn't?"). Not my fave of the three years of MTV Eggs, but still hilarious.
Oh, and FYI, the Eggs are accessed on each disc by going into the chapter selection menu, choosing the last chapter, then pressing the down arrow on your remote. A Ring icon will appear at the bottom of the screen, and you hit enter to access the egg. Very similar to the previous EEs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
Post by MajahTR on Dec 23, 2004 18:13:08 GMT -6
just a thought... i have been reading this thread with much interest because i probably will not see the extended features (unless i come over to one of your houses that is he he) but the thing that is striking me the most is seeing all of your opinions of how you would have liked the story turned into a movie...i think every one of us would end up with a different movie and disagreeing with what the others did in their version... (mine probably would have been animated... ;D) this only reinforces to me what i knew 30 some years ago when first reading the books...these stories are an intense personal experience and we all have an intense personal vision of them...cool eh? Majah
|
|
|
Post by Desi Baggins on Dec 23, 2004 19:08:22 GMT -6
Very good point Majah!!!
|
|
|
Post by Fanuidhol on Jan 10, 2005 7:11:37 GMT -6
Though I agree with most that has been said here in this thread, I would like to mention that I was glad to hear one of my favorite lines, though out of sequence but at least said by the same character in the same context. "I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her..." Faramir's morality finally fully restored! Thank Goodness!!!
My biggest disappointment though was that we still miss Merry's true heroism in the Witchking episode: the battle against his own terror. I think it could have been accomplished without diminishing Eowyn's scene. Thanks, Fan
|
|
|
Post by Desi Baggins on Jan 10, 2005 8:38:44 GMT -6
That quote by Faramir is a precious one and I am very glad it was in the movie especially since Faramir's character was changed so much in the movie!
|
|