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Post by Sparrow on Aug 31, 2004 20:20:51 GMT -6
Here are this chapter's words. Define, discuss, and feel free to add to the list.
1 - commons (as used in this chapter - Thorin tells Bilbo he is still heavy after weeks of short commons)
2 - confusticate
3 - hark
4 - quoits
5 - twilight
6 - gloaming
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Post by Stormrider on Sept 9, 2012 19:24:50 GMT -6
1 - commons (as used in this chapter - Thorin tells Bilbo he is still heavy after weeks of short commons) This sentence must be refering to this definition from Merriam Webster online dictionary: (plural but singular in construction): a dining hall
2 - confusticate (typing this one into the online dictionary confuses it--sendng it off into space! This makes me think Tolkien's use is a funny way of saying something is confused!
3 - hark--to pay close attention : listen
4 - quoits--1: a flattened ring of iron or circle of rope used in a throwing game 2: a game in which the quoits are thrown at an upright pin in an attempt to ring the pin or come as near to it as possible
5 - twilight--1: the light from the sky between full night and sunrise or between sunset and full night produced by diffusion of sunlight through the atmosphere and its dust; also: a time of twilight 2a: an intermediate state that is not clearly defined 2b: a period of decline
6 - gloaming--twilight, dusk
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Post by Andorinha on Sept 10, 2012 10:10:55 GMT -6
2. confusticate -- came up with the following, but not sure how "officially" correct it might be, nor whether Tolkien invented it, or merely used a 1930s pre-existing British term here: Definition: This word is the coalescing of the English words "confuse" and "complicate". It refers to anything of, or relating to the process of being both confused and complicated. cf www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=confusticate
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Post by Stormrider on Sept 10, 2012 19:26:16 GMT -6
Well, that makes sense -- confusing and complicated! Now to find out how it is used in this chapter! Ah ha! I found it!
The Dwarves and Bilbo approach the Elven King's feast again. Thorin doesn't want them all rushing forward this time and he wanted to send Bilbo alonge to talk to them first because they did not think they would be afraid of a hobbit. But when they got to the edge of the circle of lights, they suddenly pushed him from behind before he had a chance to put on his ring (they did not know about it yet). He stumbled into the full light of the torches and *poof* out went the lights again.
Everyone is lost and they had a worse time getting themselves all back together again but they could not find Bilbo. Finally, Dori stumbles across Bilbo in the dark and he has drifted off to sleep like Bombur.
That is still a rather strange way to use the word confusticate. Confusticate you? I supposed they mean that Bilbo has confused and complicated things by disappearing. It is just odd (to me anyway) how it is worded.
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Post by Stormrider on Sept 10, 2012 20:18:49 GMT -6
I thought quoits would have been used in the passage where Bilbo saw the boat on the other side of the Enchanted Stream as part of the explanation on how they threw the rope to snag the boat and get across the stream. Am I missing it or has the word been changed in the version I am reading (Annotated Hobbit)?
Nope! I didn't miss it! It is in the passage where Bilbo is getting ready to save the Dwarves from the spiders!Now I wonder what "shooting at the wand", "bowls", and "ninepins" are! Could bowls and/or ninepins refer to bowling?
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Post by Andorinha on Sept 10, 2012 22:58:35 GMT -6
Re Confusticate...
Yeah, it seems more like the word is being used as an expression like "blast and bother that hobbit!" rather than "confuse and complicate him."
LOL, maybe it is really compounded of "confuse" and "frustrate?"
RE "shooting at the wand" -- this is a traditional English archery game, you shoot at a narrow stick, very hard to hit, especially as the wind can set the wand to wagging back and forth.
Yeah, Stormrider, quoits is a sort of ring toss game, you try to toss your circle of rope so it falls around a peg set in the ground. Sort of like tossing horseshoes.
Yep, bowls and nine pins are like our modern bowling, only done outside on a smooth grassy area, clipped short, and called a bowling green. Shades of Henry Hudson (as a ghost in New Amsterdam, New York) playing nine pins bowling to make the sound of thunder...
I am remembering now that when The Hobbit was first written, it was independent (largely) of the rest of Middle-earth, hence it sometimes seems more like it is set in the 18th century, or even 19th century England; with Bilbo using matches, smoking pipes, wearing breeches and waistcoat, and I think he even has a clock -- so, the traditional skills of aiming and tossing found here, are likewise familiar 19th century British type games, maybe not really suited to an ancient Third Age Middle-earth?
Not sure if it's here in The Hobbit, or in the first couple chapters of LOTR, but there is also an anachronistic mention of a steam locomotor train...
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Post by Stormrider on Sept 11, 2012 6:07:58 GMT -6
Confuse and FRUSTRATE sounds even better to me in the context in which it is used in the book.
It would be very difficult to hit a stick with an arrow! At least in our own archery, there is a larger target so that there are varying point ranges on what part is hit. But shooting at something as narrow as a stick would force one to be more of a dead eye shot, eh?
And that is why I thought quoit would have had something to do with snagging that boat in the enchanted stream. Throw the circle of rope at the boat to snag on some part of it.
And a combination of bowling and golf now if done on the grass!
Well, The Hobbit always seemed rather quaint and old-fashioned to me and I've only read the later version.
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