Ch. 12 Treasure Size

[Desi Baggins]

At the begining of the book when the drwarves arragned for Bilbo to be their burgler how much treasure were you imagining...a chest full, a couple of bags or did you see a whole room full? How could the dwarves expect Bilbo to burgler a whole room full?

[Sparrow]

Until you asked this question, Desi, I don't think I ever really thought about it. I assumed it was a very great treasure, to be worth such a great quest, but I never questioned how Bilbo and the dwarves would manage to carry it. Maybe I just assumed that the dwarves would settle themselves back into the mountain, but Bilbo's protion will still be pretty big, to carry on foot or even on a pony all that way!

[MajahTR]

maybe they didn't entertain that thought of how to get the treasures out because they felt their chances of getting to that point were pretty small?
a different kind of foreshadowing?
Maj

[Andorinha]

I never thought about the size of the treasure all the way through my first reading of the adventure, nor did it ever cross my mind that a truly tremendous amount of loot would be hard to cart off, especially for Bilbo.

The dynamics of this adventure, its sub-title "there and back again," seemed to make it clear that a happy ending (one where all loose ends would be properly tied) was in the offing, so I never thought about the treasure and its difficulty of removal. I wonder if the Dwarves ever thought of just how much treasure would be there? Of course for them, even if they had a good idea of the size of the hoard, there would be no real problem with transportation. Once the Dragon was dead, the loot was in a very nicely defended vault, and this vault would soon become once more the home of the Dwarves. I think Gandalf, according to "The Quest of Erebor" (written years after The Hobbit was published), always sought the death of the Dragon, not just the burgling of the treasure. The Dwarves also seeemed to have in mind Smaug's death rather than just filching the loot. I think Bilbo was the only one of that company who was under the impression that stealing the treasure (and leaving Smaug alive) was an option?

At any rate, the size of the treasure came as a surprize to me, and I got to feel the same shocked wonder that Bilbo felt when he first saw just how much loot there was.

[Stormrider]

I always thought the treasure would be sizeable from the beginning of the story. But when Tolkien described just how huge and dazzling it was, I was amazed!

I can understand now why Thorin wanted what was his back and why Smaug wanted to hoard it even if he had no use for it.

As Tolkien described that passage in the book, I could feel that lust myself! To actually stumble on something that enormous and exceedingly valuable would have given anyone who did not know what to expect quite a shock! I could picture myself slipping a few small (but valuable) pieces into my own pockets unnoticed! (Did I just say that! )

[Stormrider]

Yep! The treasure would have had to have been very sizeable and amazing in content to risk trying to get it all back. As I said above, I always thought it was large.

I could not imagine standing in the presence of such a hoard as Tolkien described it. It would have stopped me in my tracks to see it. I don't think I would have moved at first while looking around and taking it all in. But it is true, I would have wanted to get my hands into it and sift the gems, coins, trinkets, etc. through my fingers and bury myself in it--as long as the dragon wasn't present, that is! I imagine his presence would have stopped me completely and I would have just drooled inside the door opening, itching to get my hands on it all.

Funny thing is, I would not have thought that of myself, but it would have been too majestic and glorious not to want to touch it, roll around in it, and stuff my pockets with it.

But now that I think about it more (thanks to Andorinha's comments), I don't think Thorin really expected Bilbo to steal the whole treasure out of the mountain. Thorin meant to defeat Smaug (but don't think he had formulated a plan to do that) and win the entire mountain back so there would not have really been a job for a burglar. So, why did they need Bilbo as a burglar? Was that an alternate option in the event they couldn't defeat Smaug?

[Andorinha]

Hmmm, I think "The Quest of Erebor" tries to explain-away Bilbo's presence, by saying something like Gandalf chose the hobbit and sort of told Thorin to take him, whether or not the dwarves could see any use in the little fellow, or even if they had any "burglarous" intent. But that is all stuff written long after The Hobbit was published, and sort of acted as a bridge between the 1937 book and the 1954 LOTR.

If we just use the 1937 material, Bilbo was included for "luck" as much as any other reason. Of course the real reason Bilbo was included is rather more simple: "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit." Tolkien, as an author, wanted to know what/who a hobbit might be, so Bilbo, the hobbit, has to become a central character in the tale.

I'll have to re-read Bilbo's contract, but I think he was the only one to get a stipulation of assistance in moving his share of the treasure back home to the West -- as if, all along, the dwarves were assuming that they would be staying in the East, presumably at Erebor... Sounds like they never had an alternative plan, just defeat Smaug, or die trying?