Post by Androga Erindalant on Jan 24, 2006 4:55:18 GMT -6
I heard my name been mentioned lol. So far I didn't enter the discussion since I haven't read Tolkien's essay, and since fairies aren't really my specialty. I have been reading everything though, and learned quite some new stuff. Great posts of everyone!
I'll start with my vision on fairies. I mostly know them as the little human-shaped creatures. They are as tall as a hand (or sometimes even smaller), have small transparant wings or the wings of a butterfly. They have radient bodies (likely an effect of the fairy dust), are close in touch with nature, and possess some form of magic - either by their dust, or by their voices. I think today they are most common in their small shapes. Yet, when browsing art sites, I have encountered human shaped fairies too. And in the movie "Hook" (as mentioned before), Tinkerbell takes a human-sized shape for a moment. She wanted to kiss adult Peter. This to underline the idea of their ability to change size.
I've encountered three different behaviour lines through reading (can't recall any sources at the moment though - Mythago Forest is amongst them though, and a story which had Oberon and Titiana in it, but I forgot the title). Some of them can be childish and playful, only in for fun and mischief. Others are powerful and wise, with great knowledge on nature and time. But there also seems to be a more evil aspect. They tend to lure people with them, into forgetness from all people they know.
Tolkien was my introduction to fantasy, and this has lead to the clear distinction between the little Fairies and the human-sized Elves in my thinking. I know that both types have a close background, and some people don't see any difference (the ones that I know never having read Tolkien or other fantasy). Dwarves and Leprechauns seem to have an analog connection too.
It's very informative to read how Christianity has had its influence on the celtic belief. I had heard before Christendom had used the mythology to suit its own belief system, to fight the 'old habbits die hard' saying. Yet even in this aspect I've learned some new things while following the discussion.
Those links from wikipedia look great, Desi. I've read the part on fairies, and I have followed a link there to the Elves to compare them.
I hadn't heard about the distiction between fairy tales and fairy stories until I read this discussion lol. I don't think there's even made a distiction in Dutch. It makes me wonder where the distinction of fantasy and fairy story lies. I should start reading that other thread too.
A guideline? I couldn't provide one, and I doubt if I would want to if I could. Especially as I don't know the differences between a fairy story and a fantasy story - though I'm likely to think that a fairy story could fit as a "sub-genre" of (broad) fantasy.
I'm of the oppinion that, as a writer, you should go with what you think best in your own story. Mithology is a thankful place to borrow from, and religion too. But even while those exists, you're free in your own world to shape them as you wish. As long as you make it clear enough for your readers to understand too, and explain the uniqueness. When taken to the extreme, you can perfectly create a complete new species. Tolkien himself did that when creating the Hobbits. They too have some resemblances with Leprechauns, but at the same time they are very different too. I don't recall any mythology that knows Hobbits, but of course, I don't know all mythology of all different beliefs.
When you situate your story into a specific common known mithological/historical/real world, you'll bind more to its characteristics. Like making an RP in Middle-earth, or a story in ancient Greek mythology. But still I think you have a certain freedom, especially in the "uncertain" aspects of those worlds. Things like mythology and stories aren't an exact science. So yes, I agree they all can exist together, if you work it out well enough, especially on their differences to distinguish them from each other.
Thanks for the email, btw.
I'll start with my vision on fairies. I mostly know them as the little human-shaped creatures. They are as tall as a hand (or sometimes even smaller), have small transparant wings or the wings of a butterfly. They have radient bodies (likely an effect of the fairy dust), are close in touch with nature, and possess some form of magic - either by their dust, or by their voices. I think today they are most common in their small shapes. Yet, when browsing art sites, I have encountered human shaped fairies too. And in the movie "Hook" (as mentioned before), Tinkerbell takes a human-sized shape for a moment. She wanted to kiss adult Peter. This to underline the idea of their ability to change size.
I've encountered three different behaviour lines through reading (can't recall any sources at the moment though - Mythago Forest is amongst them though, and a story which had Oberon and Titiana in it, but I forgot the title). Some of them can be childish and playful, only in for fun and mischief. Others are powerful and wise, with great knowledge on nature and time. But there also seems to be a more evil aspect. They tend to lure people with them, into forgetness from all people they know.
Tolkien was my introduction to fantasy, and this has lead to the clear distinction between the little Fairies and the human-sized Elves in my thinking. I know that both types have a close background, and some people don't see any difference (the ones that I know never having read Tolkien or other fantasy). Dwarves and Leprechauns seem to have an analog connection too.
It's very informative to read how Christianity has had its influence on the celtic belief. I had heard before Christendom had used the mythology to suit its own belief system, to fight the 'old habbits die hard' saying. Yet even in this aspect I've learned some new things while following the discussion.
Those links from wikipedia look great, Desi. I've read the part on fairies, and I have followed a link there to the Elves to compare them.
I hadn't heard about the distiction between fairy tales and fairy stories until I read this discussion lol. I don't think there's even made a distiction in Dutch. It makes me wonder where the distinction of fantasy and fairy story lies. I should start reading that other thread too.
desibaggins said:
I also have to agree that both fairy versions can co-exist. I have been trying to write a story of my own and I do research on things and then I change them to be unique to my story. So I think you can write anything however you want and you don't have to keep to any set guideline. I would like to know what Orgulas thinks on that because I know he does a lot of writing of his own too. I might have to drop him an email to let him know we are liking to hear from him!A guideline? I couldn't provide one, and I doubt if I would want to if I could. Especially as I don't know the differences between a fairy story and a fantasy story - though I'm likely to think that a fairy story could fit as a "sub-genre" of (broad) fantasy.
I'm of the oppinion that, as a writer, you should go with what you think best in your own story. Mithology is a thankful place to borrow from, and religion too. But even while those exists, you're free in your own world to shape them as you wish. As long as you make it clear enough for your readers to understand too, and explain the uniqueness. When taken to the extreme, you can perfectly create a complete new species. Tolkien himself did that when creating the Hobbits. They too have some resemblances with Leprechauns, but at the same time they are very different too. I don't recall any mythology that knows Hobbits, but of course, I don't know all mythology of all different beliefs.
When you situate your story into a specific common known mithological/historical/real world, you'll bind more to its characteristics. Like making an RP in Middle-earth, or a story in ancient Greek mythology. But still I think you have a certain freedom, especially in the "uncertain" aspects of those worlds. Things like mythology and stories aren't an exact science. So yes, I agree they all can exist together, if you work it out well enough, especially on their differences to distinguish them from each other.
Thanks for the email, btw.