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Post by Stormrider on Jan 14, 2009 7:39:02 GMT -6
From: Stormridr (Original Message) Sent: 3/16/2003 10:36 PM Three riders like ghosts on the wind How could these riders pass by Shadowfax, swiftest of mearas? Does anyone have any thoughts on who these riders are? Are they real or some kind of symbol? Stormrider |
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Post by Stormrider on Jan 14, 2009 17:17:00 GMT -6
From: Desi-Baggins Sent: 3/17/2003 6:02 PM
The horses pasted Shaodwfax because he did not sense danger and allowed them to pass. With that said perhaps those were errand runners and "...like flying ghosts in the moon and sprang away..." is referring to how important their mission is and that they must go with speed! Desi
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From: Fosco Baggins Sent: 3/17/2003 6:15 PM
Yes, the passage said he paused and slowed to a walk, so obviously he let the riders pass. With Shadowfax's great lineage and obvious superiority, he must have sensed that theses were good riders, on an important errand. The passage is also very beautiful and poetic.After further thought, perhaps these were Gondor riders bringing the arrow to Theoden? Fosco
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From: Ruscosenda Sent: 3/17/2003 7:16 PM
Once again, GMTA Fusco. I have always thought they were the riders from Gondor carrying the red arrow to Theoden. The timing is about right; and about them outrunning Shadowfax, that is not an issue since they were heading in opposite directions. -- Rusco
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From: Storrmrider Sent: 3/17/2003 10:37 PM
I had to take a double take when I read this passage. I even rubbed my eyes to see if I was seeing things. But the thought that they were the errand riders going to bring the Red Arrow to Théoden never crossed my mind! Hmmm......But were there three riders? Let's see when we get to Bk 5, Chapters 3 and 5 and see what Tolkien tells us then! Stormrider
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From: Artemis Sent: 3/21/2003 5:19 PM
I have noticed when I ride that horses have a special way of greeting eachother. Whenever I ride close to the pastures where other horse are, they all run over and neigh at eachother, as if to say "hey.... whats up, where you going?" They also seem to be concerned for eachother as if they are making sure this person who is sitting on top of one of their kind is not hurting them. When I read this I thought to myself, wow- JRRT really DOES understand horses! Shadowfax heard horses in the area and stopped to greet them and say "elan sila lumenn omentielvo!" Artemis
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From: Olórin Sent: 3/23/2003 6:19 AM
Those riders were messengers from the beacons of Gondor, Shadowfax paused in his stride, slowing to a walk and they pass Shadowfax. He did not stop them and he souldn't, they were carrying important messages.
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From: IarwainBen-adar1 Sent: 3/24/2003 11:48 AM
StormRider,I agree with the view the Riders were going in the other direction towards the Golden Hall. I like Artemis' poetic vision and might add Shadowfax may have been saying Noro lim, noro lim Toroni! (S) Ride fast ,ride fast Brothers! I don't know though he may have spoke Quenya too? Having said that I brought this qoute up from the TTT study as it reminded me of what Pippin's dream felt like as he rode with Gandalf upon Shadowfax towards Gondor. Well, I know Tolkien disliked allegory but unto this vision I have these thoughts: Shadowfax carried the fate of Middle-earth upon his back (Gandalf), as his hoofs struck Arda's(Earth's) surface, he the last of the Mearas(Father of horses) was spinning the world to it's appointed destiny. So like Oromë riding upon Nahar with sparks flying from his hoof falls as they ride through the night hunting fell beast, is this picture of Shadowfax at this moment. Perhaps a bit too poetic, but it is how I enjoy museing on it.Namárië,Iarwain.
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From: Alaere_Dûnhilien Sent: 3/29/2003 6:21 AM
I always thought they were messengers from the beacons too, as they appear shortly after the beacons are lighted. Must admit though, that I had never really thought about which direction they are going to ...And Artemis: that part about all horses greeting one another, soo beautiful. Now I'll look differently to horses for ever, and wonder what they must be thinking about that weird two legged animal passing them by lol! Alaere
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From: Ruscosenda Sent: 3/29/2003 4:27 PM
I apologize if this is too long. This is the original quote in its full context:There had been the first ride at terrible speed without a halt, and then in the dawn he had seen a pale gleam of gold, and they had come to the silent town and the great empty house on the hill. ... And then again riding, riding in the night. This was the second, no, the third night since he had looked in the stone. ... For answer Gandalf cried aloud to his horse. 'On, Shadowfax! We must hasten. Time is short. See! The beacons of Gondor are alight, calling for aid. War is kindled. See, there is the fire on Amon Din and flame on Eilenach; and there they go speeding west: Nardol, Erelas, Min-Rimmon, Calenhad, and the Halifirien.' But Shadowfax paused in his stride, slowing to a walk, and then he lifted up his head and neighed. And out of the darkness the answering neigh of other horses came; and passed like flying ghosts in the moon and vanished into the West. Then Shadowfax gathered himself together and sprang away, and the night flowed over him like a roaring wind. Pippin became drowsy again and paid little attention to Gandalf telling him of the customs of Gondor, and how the Lord of the City had beacons built on the tops of outlying hills along both borders of the great range, and maintained posts at these points where fresh horses were always in readiness to bear his errand-riders to Rohan in the North, or to Belfalas in the South. ... Pippin woke to the sound of voices. Another day of hiding and a night of journey had fleeted by.We can learn several things from this reading. 1) Gandalf and Pippin were about a days ride out of Edoras. 2) Gandalf and Pippin could see the beacon fires lighting heading west starting with Amon Din and ending with Halifirien. 3) Almost immediately, they are passed by three riders speeding West. 4) Fresh horses were always kept in readiness at these posts to bear errand-riders to Rohan in the North. 5) They were about a days ride away from Minas Tirith. Based on this information, I think the evidence clearly leads us to the fact that the three riders were the errand-riders to Rohan carrying the red arrow. Based on the above information, I would guess Gandalf and Pippin were in or very near the Firien Wood - near Halifirien. When the errand-riders at Halfirien saw the beacon fire at Calenhad, they lit their beacon fire and immediately sent errand-riders speeding West to Rohan - passing Gandalf and Pippin. Since the only errand-riders to Rohan from Gondor mentioned in the text are the ones bringing the red arrow and their arrival time fits with this timeline, I conclude that the 3 riders and the errand-riders with the red arrow are one and the same. -- Rusco
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Post by Stormrider on Jan 14, 2009 17:18:13 GMT -6
From: Orgulas_Lostlindëion Sent: 1/27/2004 8:26 AM
I have always thought the three riders were messengers from the beacons. They appear shortly after the beacons are lit, so my first thoughts always went to that direction. But since I read this thread I have been thinking about the possibility it were the riders with the red arrow. But my mind always ends with the thought only one messenger arrived in Rohan. Where are the other 2 gone? They must have been slain, for they would never give up their important task. But by which enemy? It happened after Saruman's army was destroyed by the Huorns, and I think that strange forest did its job pretty well. The Ents at Isengard probably didn't let many orcs escape either. One thing is clearly - the riders are going to the West, the opposite direction of Gandalf and Peppin. Another question I began to wonder about is where they are going to if they really are the messengers of the beacons. Are they travelling from one beacon to another? Don't recall any important places in that part of Gondor, except those beacons then. Orgulas
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From: TRMgrs1 Sent: 1/27/2004 11:42 PM
It seems to me that there were two riders bringing the Red Arrow to Théoden. Perhaps just one presented it to him but I believe he had a companion. It seems to me that as the Riders rode toward Gondor after accepting the Red Arrow, that they came upon both of the arrow bearers bodies. Stormrider
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From: Orgulas_Lostlindëion Sent: 1/30/2004 8:51 AM
Where there two? Must refresh that part still. Will get there soon lol. But still, as there only arrived two riders at Theoden's camp, there still is one missing. Hmm, just having a thought here - could it have been a bit of both? Two errand riders with the red arrow and the third one a messenger from one of the beacons who just coincidently met them on the road. The third rider had then no reason to go to Rohan, and left them before the border. I'm not behind this compromise idea - it's too unlikely too happen I think, but I just mention it, so smarter people than I can think about it lol.I would find it strange if Tolkien just forgot this third rider...
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