Prologue: What was Tolkien Thinking?

[MajahTR]

What is the purpose of the Prologue and Note on the Shire Records? What did you make of these the first time you read it? Where do they belong in your opinion?
This is an 'information dense' section. I've read many negative comments on the Internet about it. Some new readers were turned off by the 'dryness' of it. A few astute first readers realized that both sections were full of 'spoilers'. Most of the comments stated that they would be better as another appendix and counseled first time readers to avoid them like the plague.
Well, as a returning reader, I like them. I don't remember how I felt about it as a first timer.
But, gosh, yes, there are a lot of 'spoilers'. What was Tolkien thinking? Between the Prologue and especially the Note on Shire Records, we know how the story ends! I wonder if he was counting on people forgetting what they read or not reading the Prologue and Note at all.
DA

[MajahTR]

I think that Tolkien only intented to put the prologue and the note on the shire records there as a background setter, Tolkien put those things at the front so that the reader could know what on earth they were about to uncover(The Shire, Middle-Earth) without resorting to some sort of puzzlement to the reader.

When I read FotR for the first time, I was bored at the dullness of the prologue and note, I skipped them and moved on to Chapter One. But as I read LotR again I took a look at the prologue and note and enjoyed some of the information Tolkien provided in them.

As for the spoilers I for one never cared for them since by the time I knew the plot and the perilous quest of the ring I had already the spoilers that I had read in the short span of time that I had indeed read the prologue and note before I grew weary of it. I think that Tolkien never intended the reader to remember the spoilers he gave away in the prologue and note but he just had it there as a background setter for the first, second and other returning readers of his great work. Still, I am surprised of such folly from Tolkien since he was a man who was so critical of his work.

Tuor

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I agree with Tuor, and also skipped the prologue the first reading, just like the poetry and songs. Did Tolkien know first time readers would do this? I don't know. It worked for me. I would like to hear from anyone who actually READ the prologue during their first reading of the book. It would be interesting to hear this viewpoint.

Glor

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Since Tolkien created his works as "history" and since earth is still in existence he probably did not worry about "spoilers" as much as trying to provide the reader with the sense that the book contained actual history of an earlier age of earth. Historians like to think of history as interesting, even exciting, but since it is, after all, historic it cannot be thought of as a suspense story. The outcome would be known--what the reader is endeavering to discover is how that outcome came about.

MusicMom

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MusicMom, I agree with you completely. I've read the Prologue and Note each time I've read LotR (I'm linear when it comes to books) and have always perceived them as material intended to put the upcoming narrative in a historic perspective. To me, they're very important in setting the stage for the story, and it never mattered in the least that they gave me some sense of how it might end. As MusicMom said, the excitement is in seeing how that was accomplished. The 'front matter' is also our first tantalizing look at the vastness of Arda, at how huge and complex the place is. It's as if Tolkien is pulling back the curtain just a little to reveal a corner of his creation, and invites us to come in. Maybe it's just that readers like me who are hooked on the 'wonky' stuff -- the detail and history -- will like the Prologue and Note better than readers who like LotR for its 'action-adventure' qualities.
Olórië

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When I finished Hobbit, I couldn't get to FotR fast enough. I wanted that excitement to continue. I don't usually read forwards...just refer back when I need to . However, in this case, I felt I needed to read from the first page. I felt bogged down and questioned continuing many times. I thought that if the entire book was like this, I'd never be able to stay with it. However, I persisted. I'm glad I did!
Story spoilers don't bother me. I normally read far enough to know the characters and plot, and then read the last few pages. Then I read to discover how they arrived at that conclusion. In this case, Tolkien gave me the last pages in the forward. As a first time reader, it did help to lessen my confusion.

Soleil

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I also think Tolkien wasn't worried about "spoiling" the end of the story by hinting at the outcomes. The Prologue and Notes on Shire add to the reality of Middle-Earth for me. I like Olorie's image of Professor T "pulling back the curtain" for us.

Hilary

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As a first time reader who had never read the Hobbit, the prologue was extremely helpful to me. Certainly it was not absolutely necessary, but I thought it was a neat element to the whole. This shows a bit of JRRT's personality, that he was a teacher not only by profession but also by habit. I liked this in-depth background, and it's Geographical/Sociological/Historical design, it adds not only dimension and flavor to the Shire (and consequently to all of Middle Earth), but when put so matter-of-factly it gives one the sense that they are reading not a fairy tale, but the epic re-telling of actual events.
Maybe my memory is clouded, but I don't remember realizing that I was reading so many spoilers. On the other hand, I think of spoilers as important bits that, if I knew them ahead of time might "spoil" (or even ruin) the story for me. With a mystery, spoilers might very well kill the entire story. But LoTR is not a mystery. It is an epic adventure concerning heroes and villians. There is only one way for it to go - good will conquer over evil. I think the "spoilers" add to the feeling of "real history". When you think of it as history, it's okay if you know ahead of time that Sauron is defeated and the ring destroyed. We all know about the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, but to an in-depth account of it would still be a fascinating read.
Now I realize, having just read all the other posts that I've said much the same as Music Mom in a less eloquent, more drawn out manner (always).

Oh well. here's the shortened version of my post...
I'm wit' you MM.

~Illadria
::still looking for more

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[MajahTR]

RE: Prologue and Note

DA reports: "I've read many negative comments on the Internet about it [Prologue and Note]. Some new readers were turned off by the 'dryness' of it."

Music Mom speaks for me when she puts it so economically well: "Since Tolkien created his works as "history" and since earth is still in existence he probably did not worry about 'spoilers' as much as trying to provide the reader with the sense that the book contained actual history of an earlier age of earth."

Right On, Olorie! "The 'front matter' is also our first tantalizing look at the vastness of Arda, at how huge and complex the place is. It's as if Tolkien is pulling back the curtain just a little to reveal a corner of his creation, and invites us to come in."

Yes, Ma'am, Hilary! "I also think Tolkien wasn't worried about 'spoiling' the end of the story by hinting at the outcomes."
In The Defense of Academic Prologues!
(Is this a generational thing!?)
Or
Taking fifty words to say what everyone else relates in three...


LOL - I feared this topic might leave me isolated here as the sole defender of the Prologue, but since I started my dissertation others have come forward with the same point of view that I thought would mark me as a freak -- further!

The Prologue and Note were what chiefly grabbed my lasting attention, and solidified my resolve to plunk down 95 precious cents to buy a book instead of purchasing the much needed physical nourishments that the grocery store also afforded. I opened my first copy of LotR and read the haunting, dark power of the "Ring Inscription" poem, not yet knowing what it referred to, but liking very much the fact that it raised my hackles and gave me a good shiver! Half an hour later, after I had read the prologue under the wary gaze of an otherwise bored clerk, I was driving everyone in earshot crazy, memorizing the verses the only way I knew how -- repeated, out-loud recitations.

I skipped the Foreword, being used to finding nothing in these save the publisher's advertising blurbs, and missed out on Tolkien's own statement of how the book developed, then plunged into the Prologue. By the time I finished the Note, I eagerly forked over my last dollar for this mere "reading material," -- head won over stomach! As I read LotR before I found a copy of the Hobbit, the prologue was a needed introduction to the cast of characters that set out plainly their physical types and behavioral limits. It also presented me with a rich vocabulary of place names, and hints of a very deep and realistic history that underlay the whole concept of Middle-earth. Maybe I was already conditioned by reading "real" histories and ethnographic accounts, but I found the Prologue fascinating, a tantalizing foretaste of the matters to be developed in the text. There was, for me, a thrilling sort of anticipation created by the Prologue and the Note, they set the "reality" of Middle-earth firmly in my mind. The "Note" itself occupied the proper place in a "history" book, it came up front and listed the "bibliography" of sources that the author was to use for his analysis of the events to be discussed... very professional, I thought it, and another touch of realism.

I was also taken at once by the style of Tolkien's writing, his sentences, even in this Prologue, were balanced, rhetorical periods of a classical mode that carried the reader onward. He also assumed his audience had some interest in the academic underpinnings of this Middle-earth, and I recall feeling very mature and advanced when I found Tolkien was treating me as an adult reader, and that he did not jump straight into the action mode the way so many science fiction works then did. (At the time I read LotR -- we were not yet taught to distinguish Fantasy and Sci Fi! There was NO Middle-earth genre.)

For me, the "spoiler" effect of these two bits was absolutely ZERO. It never spoiled a well-written account of the Roman Empire that I happened already to know that Rome would fall... LOL, if anything, this treatment of LotR as an historical event -- a real one that occurred longer ago and further away than Bishop Usher's 6000 years of orthodox history might allow -- was brought to an even sharper focus of reality by its having such a preface. The Prologue-Note, and the Appendices were the academic historical commentary on Middle-earth, the actual text of the book (chapter one on) was an insider's version of that history, like going back in time to SEE and LIVE through the events described so much later, and in so much less personalized detail by the historians.

The only thing that left me stumbling, was the amount of time devoted to this Bilbo fellow and his relations with some Gollum guy or other... and the almost apologetic feeling I sensed when Tolkien spoke about the finding of the Ring, and the altering of Bilbo's original story. I did not know then that this "perceived" akwardness covered a necessary re-structuring of the original published version of the Hobbit to allow the ring Bilbo found to take on its connective function as the element that tied the two works together. Besides, I could easily forgive any dis-jointed feeling the section aroused as I liked the ethnographically correct description of the Riddle Game! I did not then guess that Tolkien would be able to blend Bilbo's changing story with the theme of the increasing, pernicious power of the Ruling Ring -- an excellent way of integrating this altered narrative into the deeper context of the new LotR storyline!

So, in my estimation, I see no real "folly" in Tolkien starting out his history of Middle-earth with such an academic Prologue, he was an academic, afterall, and in those days, I think, the reading public was more academically conditioned itself. And so long as he was "sub-creating" a historical work, such an introduction would be deemed a necessary element to any realistic treatise -- but I do see Tuor's point as valid, NOW: the reading of history, I am told by my students, is something not done much any more, and so the pleasant fiction Tolkien maintains throughout his Middle-earth writing -- that these books are the remnant tales from a real world, a real period, and taken from a real set of documents -- may not have as much meaning for readers who may no longer share Tolkien's own academic background.

Gawds, I feel OLD!
LOL - just read your fine piece Illadria! Wonderful! I see we even have the same "Roman" allusion! I do not feel freakish, on this count, any more -- apparently there are still some readers of history out there!
Karo6

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Thanks Karo6. Anything I can do to make a fellow Tolkienite feel less "freakish". Though usually I accomplish that simply by appearing more freakish than anyone else.

~Illadria
::I don't deserve self esteem::
(Please, before you get upset about that, it's just a joke. It's a bumper sticker I saw, and I thought it was soooo funny!)

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Wow Karo6, after that piece of work you put up there you left my head spinning, you are one gifted writer who knows his vocabulary very well. Your account of the finding of the "book" was remarkable. My first LotR book came to me as a christmas present last year...so I couldn't give such a whole-hearted wondefully written account. Keep up the good work....

Also, I do see your point that the spoilers included in the prologue and note. I leafed throught the prologue this afternoon and came upon a similair conclusion. Such a wonderful historical text must have included such things(spoilers). I myself may not be the master on how a historical text with a live account of the incident should work but I will have to say that Tolkien did his text in a near perfect way. In the end, we all must say spoilers will forever reamain essential to add a good pre-narrative background setter to Tolkien's wonderful Middle-Earth.

Tuor

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[MajahTR]

Though this topic has perhaps already been thoroughly discussed, I add my two cents here.
I was reading the book after watching FotR, so spoilers were not an issue, at least through the first two books. I did not absorb enough of the introductory text to catch many of the spoilers, in my eagerness to get to the actual account. I agree with what others have already said, that the prologue added to the sense of historical realness and also made me feel I had insight into how Tolkien felt about the book.
Sparrow

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So, in my estimation, I see no real "folly" in Tolkien starting out his history of Middle-earth with such an academic Prologue, he was an academic, afterall, and in those days, I think, the reading public was more academically conditioned itself. (K6)

How true, K6. It is appalling to me these days that Latin is considered a dead language, Shakespeare is that Leo Di'Caprio movie, and "His Story" is a Michael Jackson album.

Where did it all go so wrong? Perhaps the movie and it's latent result of bringing Tolkien's written work back to the forefront, is the way to bring culture back to the masses. I grew up on Willie and the Greek tradgedies, cut my teeth on Dostoevsky, read Balzac and those slithy nouns, wallowed in the mire that was Milton, Byron, and Joyce. But when will our paradise be revisited?

Tolkien is actually the hope I see for our children. If it takes a worldwide highest grossing movie to do it, so be it. Today, the reading public is conditioned to aweful Stephen King novels that do nothing to improve the mind. If the movie brings young minds to a truly well written tale, then all hope is not lost. The crownless, will once again become king.

I ramble, but I suspect you gleen the intent.

Namárië,
Glor

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For me ... I adore Prologues & Forewards.

This is the one place in the book that you can get a sense of what the author was thinking. It really doesn't matter to me whether it comes first or last. I read them as I would a magazine article ... storing away the bits of information that I feel are important and separating them from the narrative.

I was one of those who read the book cover to cover in proper sequence. I do not recall being put-out by the information presented in the P & the F, rather, I was drawn deeper into my desire to start reading ... The P & F enticed and beckoned me ... I had found a place more real than Narnia because I had all this lovely information concerning the classification of Hobbits even down to their pipeweed!

Once I began reading the story proper ... I had forgotten all about the revelations of the P & F. I was drawn "into the moment" and that is a grand place to be. I trudged slightly behind (and to the left) of Samwise as we climbed the winding staircase of Cirith Ungol. Could we destroy Sauron's Ring? I had no idea! I only knew we had to try ...

Algamesh

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Glor: I had to answer your post. You wrote:
Where did it all go so wrong? Perhaps the movie and it's latent result of bringing Tolkien's written work back to the forefront, is the way to bring culture back to the masses. I grew up on Willie and the Greek tradgedies, cut my teeth on Dostoevsky, read Balzac and those slithy nouns, wallowed in the mire that was Milton, Byron, and Joyce. But when will our paradise be revisited?

Tolkien is actually the hope I see for our children. If it takes a worldwide highest grossing movie to do it, so be it. Today, the reading public is conditioned to aweful Stephen King novels that do nothing to improve the mind. If the movie brings young minds to a truly well written tale, then all hope is not lost. The crownless, will once again become king.

Back in the mid-80's and early 90's when I sent my step daughters off to high school, I was appalled by their summer reading lists. There was none! It was two different high schools, no less! I remember having to read at least four books every summer and at least six (probably more) through the school year. These classics are still on my bookshelves. The first summer reading between 8th grade and freshman year was The Hobbit. And one book during freshman year was FotR.
My friends and I read Dostoyevsky for fun!

This past year, my daughter's 7th grade class begged the teacher to let them read The Hobbit as a class. So, maybe you are right, Glor.
DaleAnn

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Even when I was in school we were reading very little of the classics. But I am trying to catch up on what I've missed and have an impressive (I would say) collection waiting for me to wrench myself away from my new-found obsession (JRRT).

I do know children who read Shakespeare, Chaucer, Dante, Melville, etc... just for fun. Many also find non-fiction such as Aristotle, Aquinas, and Gibbon to be fascinating reading. Their called homeschoolers, and my daughter is one of them.

I completely agree with you about the movie bringing our young (and even some of our old ) to Tolkien. And once somebody gets a taste for great literature, they're insatiable.

Namárië,
Illadria

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Glor, DA, llladria,

You're right about people not reading classics. I've not read most of those authors you've mentioned, and I'm supposed to be studying literature! I'm determined to read at least a few new books this year (outside of school), but what about those who miss out? I'll have more than enough reading to do this semester though, so perhaps I should be careful what I wish for. (In fact, I know I'm in for it now, not with the reading but with the writing. Wringing of hands, fearful whining, nervous gulps)
Fallohide

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[MajahTR]

Fallohide,
If one can read one can learn anything. If one can read well one will learn anything well! (Author unknown)
Yes it excites me to see so many copies of Tolkien's works about, granted I don't expect a "second coming" over this, but I am delighted to be asked questions about a subject that considered too different for mainstream.
I agree with everyones points here regarding the Prologue. When I first read it I was excited, I thought cool it's not sounding as "childish" as the Hobbit. No offence intended with the term childish, perhaps whimsical is better. Any way I felt the book was growing more mature as I was, and it delighted me. I was of course ignorant of the publishing date until about half way through. Still I was excited and loved every word the master offered me.
Namárië,
Iarwain

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I knew a lot about the Hobbit and LotR before I read them. The Prologue was a "teaser" not a spoiler.

Luthien

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Having read The Hobbit first, I'm sure that I did not read The Prologue until years after my first reading. Yes there's some info in the Prologue that's not in The Hobbit, but I was not concerned with that at the time. Also, as a kid I used to be impatient with the first few chapters. They seem to move along slowly.

In his book review, Lewis says, "The Fellowship gives us at last the lineaments of that myth 'in their true dimensions like themselves'. Misunderstanding on this point might easily be encouraged by the first chapter, in which the author (taking a risk) writes almost in the manner of the earliest and far lighter book. With some who will find the main body of the book deeply moving, this chapter may not be a favourite."

I'm still not too excited about reading The Prologue, but I have great appreciation for it. It helps give us (as Lewis says) "the lineaments of that myth 'in their true dimensions like themselves'." As creative as fantasy literature can be, there are definite rules about how it operates. That is what The Prologue does for us. It provides the detail required for only the most glorious paintings.

Concerning the idea of a 'spoiler,' I'm at a loss. I just don't remember reading LOTR for the first time. I guess I just don't care whether or not I know the ending. Not quite sure why I've read the book so much. LOL - the ring gets destroyed every time.

Strangely, the Shire chapters are actually a 'favourite' for me now. Perhaps, I just enjoy savoring those chapters since I know what they have in store for them when Sharkey comes along.
Tumnus

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Take heart, Glor! Not all kids' minds are rotting! My daughter read Crime and Punishment in 6th grade, for fun. She read LotR about that time, and Lord of the Flies last year. She just now had to read the latter for school this year. She and I read Pride and Prejudice together out loud. She and her friends read classics, for fun.
She has had summer reading lists, albeit short ones, since she finished 8th grade.
Self-motivated kids who have inquisitive minds will seek out good reading material. The ones who
suffer are the more average kids
Sparrow

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