Post by Andorinha on Jan 14, 2009 11:20:28 GMT -6
AdvOf TB ARCHIVE : Two sides of Tom
Message 1 of 10 in Discussion
From: rivers (Original Message) Sent: 7/31/2002 10:42 PM
In Tolkien's Letters (#153) he refers to Tom Bombadil in two ways. The first way is to personify Tom Bombadil as the spirit of the dwindling English countryside. The second more mysterious manner is that he couldn't bring himself to keep Tom Bombadil out of The Lord of the Rings because he represents something larger and best not left out, yet he hesitates to delve to deeply into exactly what it is. What are your thoughts on both comparisons?
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Recommend Message 2 of 10 in Discussion
From: Illadria Sent: 8/1/2002 1:01 AM
Wow!
I read this question after ansering the Master of All question.
I have to say this explanation of the 2 sides of Tom hits the nail right smack on the head for me. That would explain his strange dress, and perhaps even his odd way of speaking.
Namarie,
Illadria
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Message 3 of 10 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 8/1/2002 10:04 AM
As a romantic I am drawn to the vanishing spirit of the Oxford coutryside metaphor. I find it to be acceptable as to explain his existance with the FotR.
The hesitance he gives in his other statement in "Letters" leads me to believe a more personal note. Consider if you will a Father with his children around him, Mother preparing the meal, the fire burning merrily, and an odd dutch doll with a blue jacket and boots of yellow sitting upon the hearth. The Father begins to tell tales of elder days to the children and time seems to be lost. He tells of Badgers and there odd ways, of Willowman, and of the Barrows and their Wights.
Hey wait, didn't I read somthing of this sort once, only subsitute Hobbits for children (of course to Tom all are children) and Mother would be Goldberry. This is the thought I am most enarmoured with. Many like to think Bilbo was Tolkiens personification, but I have always seen Tom as Tolkien's super ego. Knowlege for knowlege's sake. The true parent spending a lifetime within an evening casting tales into the shadows sprung up by the warming fires light.
I think more than anything this was why he felt Bombadil represented somthing he was not prepared to explain. Bombadil's joy was Tolkien's Love for his children, Bombadil's power was his song, one of mirth and laughter and ceasless joy upon the creator(Tolkien) bestowed by his children.
If ever a parent out there has woven a tale to their child and watched the emotions run their course in the face of that child, and seen the admiration of that child whom sees the story teller as the wisest and eldest in his/her life. They know the spirit and power that is the song of Bombadil and they are the master.
Namárië,
Iarwain in admiration of all parents (And a bit of "healthy" envy I assure you)
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Message 4 of 10 in Discussion From: sparrow
Sent: 8/1/2002 9:17 PM
Hmmm. . .
Tom as father and Goldberry as mother. . .
Kind of like Adam and Eve, with the nature association.
Didn't it say in FOTR that Tom was very, very old?
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Message 5 of 10 in Discussion From: MSN Nicknamefallohide
Sent: 8/2/2002 1:51 AM
Iarwain
I found your words on this moving. Thought I'd add that even apart from the storytelling, Bombadil is like a parent in ways. There's a sense of real comfort (is that the word? homeiness?) in the house of Bombadill. He's parent-like in his providing and gaurding (if that's the word, watching out for?). He feeds the hobbits and even reasurres them before they sleep. " Fear nothing! Have peace until the morning! Heed no nightly noises!" ~ fallohide
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Message 6 of 10 in Discussion From: Zauber
Sent: 8/2/2002 6:47 AM
I agree with the idea of Tom as a Nature Spirit, altho I have to confess that walking my dogs in a neaby woods I would not be at all surprised to hear Tom coming along, singing. Evidently I view him as a Spirit of more than just the English countryside!
Represents something larger? I should think a Nature Spirit, a spirit representing all growing things, would be quite immense in its/his own self. But I do like Iarwain's image of FATHER. At one time I wondered if Tom might be Father Time, and when I inititally read LOTR I got Tom somehow fixed in my mind as a Noah figure. Not sure where these ideas came from.
Last night, skimming LOTR to refresh my memory of Tom there, as I read the poems, I noticed it was Tom who chose the blades from the barrow, and gave them to the Hobbits. Remarkable, considering the feat one of the blades achieved against the Nazgul!
Tolkien does say in one of his letters that Tom is purposely an enigma. I think he had fun leaving some loose ends -- such as Tom and Goldberry, and what happened to the Blue Wizards, and the Entwives. It lets the reader 'think outside the book', as Iarwain just demonstrated.
Zauber
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Message 7 of 10 in Discussion From: rivers
Sent: 8/2/2002 7:39 PM
In regards to the something that just shouldn't be left out. Perhaps its that something that can't be explained like love at first sight, dejavu, dreams. That weird feeling you have when you feel like you know someone you don't or your instantly comfortable around someone that you just met. Call it chance or fortune but Tom seems to be the master of something larger so that the normal parameters of time space and nature do not pertain to him. A part of everything but subject to one. To me that something is true freedom because if you own something you are responsible for it so it has a hold on you whereas if you allow something to be free but yet not infringe upon your enjoyment you are truly free. Man this cough syrup is good perhaps I should return later when I don't ramble.
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Message 8 of 10 in Discussion From: Soleil
Sent: 8/3/2002 9:22 AM
As a child, I watched "The Friendly Giant". He was a gentle giant, watching over the people of the valley, yet claiming no control or responsibility. When I met Tom, this giant came immediately to mind.
Rivers, don't dump the syrup! I very much like your concept. Tom, like my giant, is truly free...bound by nothing, but overseer of all.
Soleil
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Message 9 of 10 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 8/3/2002 4:05 PM
Very nice description Rivers! Hmm, what's that perscription your taking?" LOL!
Namárië,
Iarwain
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Message 10 of 10 in Discussion
Sent: 8/6/2002 9:05 AM
This message has been deleted by the author.
Message 1 of 10 in Discussion
From: rivers (Original Message) Sent: 7/31/2002 10:42 PM
In Tolkien's Letters (#153) he refers to Tom Bombadil in two ways. The first way is to personify Tom Bombadil as the spirit of the dwindling English countryside. The second more mysterious manner is that he couldn't bring himself to keep Tom Bombadil out of The Lord of the Rings because he represents something larger and best not left out, yet he hesitates to delve to deeply into exactly what it is. What are your thoughts on both comparisons?
____________________________
Reply
Recommend Message 2 of 10 in Discussion
From: Illadria Sent: 8/1/2002 1:01 AM
Wow!
I read this question after ansering the Master of All question.
I have to say this explanation of the 2 sides of Tom hits the nail right smack on the head for me. That would explain his strange dress, and perhaps even his odd way of speaking.
Namarie,
Illadria
________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 10 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 8/1/2002 10:04 AM
As a romantic I am drawn to the vanishing spirit of the Oxford coutryside metaphor. I find it to be acceptable as to explain his existance with the FotR.
The hesitance he gives in his other statement in "Letters" leads me to believe a more personal note. Consider if you will a Father with his children around him, Mother preparing the meal, the fire burning merrily, and an odd dutch doll with a blue jacket and boots of yellow sitting upon the hearth. The Father begins to tell tales of elder days to the children and time seems to be lost. He tells of Badgers and there odd ways, of Willowman, and of the Barrows and their Wights.
Hey wait, didn't I read somthing of this sort once, only subsitute Hobbits for children (of course to Tom all are children) and Mother would be Goldberry. This is the thought I am most enarmoured with. Many like to think Bilbo was Tolkiens personification, but I have always seen Tom as Tolkien's super ego. Knowlege for knowlege's sake. The true parent spending a lifetime within an evening casting tales into the shadows sprung up by the warming fires light.
I think more than anything this was why he felt Bombadil represented somthing he was not prepared to explain. Bombadil's joy was Tolkien's Love for his children, Bombadil's power was his song, one of mirth and laughter and ceasless joy upon the creator(Tolkien) bestowed by his children.
If ever a parent out there has woven a tale to their child and watched the emotions run their course in the face of that child, and seen the admiration of that child whom sees the story teller as the wisest and eldest in his/her life. They know the spirit and power that is the song of Bombadil and they are the master.
Namárië,
Iarwain in admiration of all parents (And a bit of "healthy" envy I assure you)
______________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 10 in Discussion From: sparrow
Sent: 8/1/2002 9:17 PM
Hmmm. . .
Tom as father and Goldberry as mother. . .
Kind of like Adam and Eve, with the nature association.
Didn't it say in FOTR that Tom was very, very old?
__________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 10 in Discussion From: MSN Nicknamefallohide
Sent: 8/2/2002 1:51 AM
Iarwain
I found your words on this moving. Thought I'd add that even apart from the storytelling, Bombadil is like a parent in ways. There's a sense of real comfort (is that the word? homeiness?) in the house of Bombadill. He's parent-like in his providing and gaurding (if that's the word, watching out for?). He feeds the hobbits and even reasurres them before they sleep. " Fear nothing! Have peace until the morning! Heed no nightly noises!" ~ fallohide
____________________________
Reply
Message 6 of 10 in Discussion From: Zauber
Sent: 8/2/2002 6:47 AM
I agree with the idea of Tom as a Nature Spirit, altho I have to confess that walking my dogs in a neaby woods I would not be at all surprised to hear Tom coming along, singing. Evidently I view him as a Spirit of more than just the English countryside!
Represents something larger? I should think a Nature Spirit, a spirit representing all growing things, would be quite immense in its/his own self. But I do like Iarwain's image of FATHER. At one time I wondered if Tom might be Father Time, and when I inititally read LOTR I got Tom somehow fixed in my mind as a Noah figure. Not sure where these ideas came from.
Last night, skimming LOTR to refresh my memory of Tom there, as I read the poems, I noticed it was Tom who chose the blades from the barrow, and gave them to the Hobbits. Remarkable, considering the feat one of the blades achieved against the Nazgul!
Tolkien does say in one of his letters that Tom is purposely an enigma. I think he had fun leaving some loose ends -- such as Tom and Goldberry, and what happened to the Blue Wizards, and the Entwives. It lets the reader 'think outside the book', as Iarwain just demonstrated.
Zauber
_______________________
Reply
Message 7 of 10 in Discussion From: rivers
Sent: 8/2/2002 7:39 PM
In regards to the something that just shouldn't be left out. Perhaps its that something that can't be explained like love at first sight, dejavu, dreams. That weird feeling you have when you feel like you know someone you don't or your instantly comfortable around someone that you just met. Call it chance or fortune but Tom seems to be the master of something larger so that the normal parameters of time space and nature do not pertain to him. A part of everything but subject to one. To me that something is true freedom because if you own something you are responsible for it so it has a hold on you whereas if you allow something to be free but yet not infringe upon your enjoyment you are truly free. Man this cough syrup is good perhaps I should return later when I don't ramble.
____________________________
Reply
Message 8 of 10 in Discussion From: Soleil
Sent: 8/3/2002 9:22 AM
As a child, I watched "The Friendly Giant". He was a gentle giant, watching over the people of the valley, yet claiming no control or responsibility. When I met Tom, this giant came immediately to mind.
Rivers, don't dump the syrup! I very much like your concept. Tom, like my giant, is truly free...bound by nothing, but overseer of all.
Soleil
_____________________________
Reply
Message 9 of 10 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 8/3/2002 4:05 PM
Very nice description Rivers! Hmm, what's that perscription your taking?" LOL!
Namárië,
Iarwain
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Message 10 of 10 in Discussion
Sent: 8/6/2002 9:05 AM
This message has been deleted by the author.