Post by Andorinha on Jan 14, 2009 17:33:27 GMT -6
AdvOf TB ARCHIVE: Perception Shifts?
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Message 1 of 4 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameLord_Algamesh
Sent: 8/28/2002 10:12 PM
Tolkienites!
I don't know if the fellas planned to inquire about this topic but I would like to go ahead and get it out there for your thoughts ...
For those of you who have participated in this study or those who are familiar with the material, have your perceptions about Bombadil or any other aspect of Tolkien's "sub-creation" changed since reading The Adventures of Tom Bombadil? If yes ... how so?
Algamesh
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Message 2 of 4 in Discussion From: Glorfindle
Sent: 8/30/2002 11:22 PM
Not really. Only thing that changed for me is my admiration of Tolkien as a poet. Rivers technical dissection has made me realize the poems are more than simply enjoyable, but are example's of a very educated man, well versed in poetic structure, and can hold his own against other quality poets.
Glor
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Message 3 of 4 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 9/5/2002 10:07 AM
I was lucky that I went into the Hobbit with a love, not necessarily an understanding of poetry. I still lack much technical knowlege of verse, but I still love it and Tolkien's poems delight me always.
Glor if you are anyone else is interested Tolkien wrote and translated many verses in "Songs for the Philologists" 1936. In this book you'll find "The Root of the Boot" later to be revised and called "Stone Troll", also one of his translations from Old English was an obvious influence to a Shire character "Ruddoc Hana" or "Who Killed Cock Robin".
For me it is remarkable how gifted this one man was, but then I have always felt that way, so other than gaining new insight and wonderful technical understanding of some of the poems we've seen my perception of both Tolkien as a poet, and Bombadil as an enigma (possibly elemental) are essentially the same.
Now as far as my perception of the group, although I was aware of the gifted insights we have amongst us here, I am still astounded at some of the concepts that all of you have opened my eyes to during this Adventure. So I just want to say thanks, and we are almost finished, I really have to finish this soon, DaleAnn is writting so many exciting topics at her study I fear if I start over there I might neglect to finish here.
Namárië,
Iarwain
____________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 4 in Discussion From: AnnieLT
Sent: 9/7/2002 10:30 AM
Alg, your question concerning shifts of peception has intrigued me since you first posted it and has taken me awhile to get my thoughts together on this.
Aside from gaining a deeper understanding of Bombadil and assuring his rightful place within LOTR, was the discovery of the darker side of our beloved author. In changing focus from his characters to the mind which created them, I have gained a more intimate portrait.
At times, I have to admit, I didn’t want to look at this shadowy aspect of Tolkien, but I persevered in spite of the discomfort it sometimes created within in me. It was easier to speak of Frodo’s discomfort, or Princess Mee’s escape from the mundane, or the ever-roving mariner, or the man who dwelt alone, or the isolation of the Lonely Troll, or the terror lying beyond a closed door.
The realization that these feelings are Tolkien’s has shifted my perception in ways that I would never have imagined. All of us have special poems or passages that are profoundly moving, filling us with nostalgia or sadness that bring tears to our eyes. I don’t think we would be able to experience these emotions if Tolkien hadn’t experienced them himself and was able to translate those feelings to us through his characters. I also have to remember that joy, hope, courage, honor, trust, healing, and friendship also abound within Tolkien. For me those dark nights of the soul were necessary because they enabled him to write the monumental works that fill us with so much awe.
I’m beginning to think of myself ever still a wanderer, a tarrier in Middle-earth as I start again to delve deeper to understand this wise and profound soul. Like the mariner, I return again and again to ponder the messages and wonder why I can’t seem to absorb it all. Like Gandalf, "I have forgotten much that I thought I knew, and learned again much that I had forgotten." Does anyone else feel this way?
Thank you, Alg, for posing such a thought provoking question.
Annie
__________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 4 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameLord_Algamesh
Sent: 8/28/2002 10:12 PM
Tolkienites!
I don't know if the fellas planned to inquire about this topic but I would like to go ahead and get it out there for your thoughts ...
For those of you who have participated in this study or those who are familiar with the material, have your perceptions about Bombadil or any other aspect of Tolkien's "sub-creation" changed since reading The Adventures of Tom Bombadil? If yes ... how so?
Algamesh
______________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 4 in Discussion From: Glorfindle
Sent: 8/30/2002 11:22 PM
Not really. Only thing that changed for me is my admiration of Tolkien as a poet. Rivers technical dissection has made me realize the poems are more than simply enjoyable, but are example's of a very educated man, well versed in poetic structure, and can hold his own against other quality poets.
Glor
__________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 4 in Discussion From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 9/5/2002 10:07 AM
I was lucky that I went into the Hobbit with a love, not necessarily an understanding of poetry. I still lack much technical knowlege of verse, but I still love it and Tolkien's poems delight me always.
Glor if you are anyone else is interested Tolkien wrote and translated many verses in "Songs for the Philologists" 1936. In this book you'll find "The Root of the Boot" later to be revised and called "Stone Troll", also one of his translations from Old English was an obvious influence to a Shire character "Ruddoc Hana" or "Who Killed Cock Robin".
For me it is remarkable how gifted this one man was, but then I have always felt that way, so other than gaining new insight and wonderful technical understanding of some of the poems we've seen my perception of both Tolkien as a poet, and Bombadil as an enigma (possibly elemental) are essentially the same.
Now as far as my perception of the group, although I was aware of the gifted insights we have amongst us here, I am still astounded at some of the concepts that all of you have opened my eyes to during this Adventure. So I just want to say thanks, and we are almost finished, I really have to finish this soon, DaleAnn is writting so many exciting topics at her study I fear if I start over there I might neglect to finish here.
Namárië,
Iarwain
____________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 4 in Discussion From: AnnieLT
Sent: 9/7/2002 10:30 AM
Alg, your question concerning shifts of peception has intrigued me since you first posted it and has taken me awhile to get my thoughts together on this.
Aside from gaining a deeper understanding of Bombadil and assuring his rightful place within LOTR, was the discovery of the darker side of our beloved author. In changing focus from his characters to the mind which created them, I have gained a more intimate portrait.
At times, I have to admit, I didn’t want to look at this shadowy aspect of Tolkien, but I persevered in spite of the discomfort it sometimes created within in me. It was easier to speak of Frodo’s discomfort, or Princess Mee’s escape from the mundane, or the ever-roving mariner, or the man who dwelt alone, or the isolation of the Lonely Troll, or the terror lying beyond a closed door.
The realization that these feelings are Tolkien’s has shifted my perception in ways that I would never have imagined. All of us have special poems or passages that are profoundly moving, filling us with nostalgia or sadness that bring tears to our eyes. I don’t think we would be able to experience these emotions if Tolkien hadn’t experienced them himself and was able to translate those feelings to us through his characters. I also have to remember that joy, hope, courage, honor, trust, healing, and friendship also abound within Tolkien. For me those dark nights of the soul were necessary because they enabled him to write the monumental works that fill us with so much awe.
I’m beginning to think of myself ever still a wanderer, a tarrier in Middle-earth as I start again to delve deeper to understand this wise and profound soul. Like the mariner, I return again and again to ponder the messages and wonder why I can’t seem to absorb it all. Like Gandalf, "I have forgotten much that I thought I knew, and learned again much that I had forgotten." Does anyone else feel this way?
Thank you, Alg, for posing such a thought provoking question.
Annie