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Post by Stormrider on Jan 15, 2009 20:42:35 GMT -6
From: Annie2 (Original Message) Sent: 5/1/2003 7:37 PM
The picture was lost--it was a picture of "The Army of the Lidless Eye from FOTR, PJ
Wk7, Bk5, CH10, Discussion: Pippin Faces The Enemy
Pippin stands before the Black Gates, Beregond at his side, when the enemy crashes in on them. He now knows how real the threat of death is. He draws his sword and faces beasts taller and broader than the men of Gondor. In that moment he wishes he could smite the horrid Messenger with it. Beregond is struck down by a Hill Troll. Just as the Troll reaches down to rip Beregond’s throat, Pippin stabs upwards piercing the hide and he plunges his blade deep into the vitals. As the beast topples, it buries the men beneath it, including Pippin and he falls into a deep blackness.
Why was Pippin willing to sacrifice his life knowing that he would most probably die here? Do you see any similarities between Pippin’s engagement with the Troll and Merry’s attack on the Witchking? How alike or different are these foes?
"As his mind fell away into a great darkness...it winged away into forgetfulness, it heard voices, and they seemed to be crying in some forgotten world far above."
What does Pippin hear as he looses consciousness? Why does he think of Bilbo? Why does he think his tale ends here?
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Post by Stormrider on Jan 15, 2009 20:44:15 GMT -6
From: Alaere_Dûnhilien Sent: 5/3/2003 6:55 AM After seeing Frodo's garments, Pippin has lost all hope. They had no hope to win this battle to begin with, and if the Enemy has captured Frodo, then He must have found the Ring too. They wanted to distract Sauron's attention away, so Frodo could go unnoticed and have a better chance to destroy it, but it appears that they are too late.
He also feels very discouraged by Gandalf's refusal to accept Sauron's conditions, thus leaving Frodo to torment and most likely, death (if he isn't dead already).
Right before he looses consciousness, he hears voices calling that the Eagles are there. He knows that they came to the Battle of the Five Armies to fight against the goblins, remembering Bilbo's tale. But, since he is crushed underneath that Troll, he does not think he will make it, even if the Eagles are really there and not just a hallucination on his account. I suspect that he would rather be dead than having to live under the dominion of Sauron. The way Tolkien described this part (his mind falling into darkness, winging away into forgetfullness), makes me think that Pippin is having something like a 'near-death-experience': he seems 'detached', not only from his body, but from his feelings, his pain. It is like he's indifferent to what happens next in 'some forgotten world far above', because he feels or knows that he has no role to play in it anymore. Or at least, his spirit feels that way. Alaere * * * From: AnnieLT Sent: 5/3/2003 7:40 AM Alaere writes: "The way Tolkien described this part (his mind falling into darkness, winging away into forgetfullness), makes me think that Pippin is having something like a 'near-death-experience': he seems 'detached', not only from his body, but from his feelings, his pain. It is like he's indifferent to what happens next in 'some forgotten world far above', because he feels or knows that he has no role to play in it anymore. Or at least, his spirit feels that way."
An excellent way to interpret Pippin's last thoughts, Alaere. I hadn't quite thought of it that way. And the following quote seems to support what you say here, "It(pippin's mind) laughed a little within him ere it fled, almost gay it seemed to be casting off at last all doubt and care and fear." * * * From: Desi-Baggins Sent: 5/4/2003 10:01 PM I think Merry had more noble intentions behind his fighting of the Witchking. Pippin seemed to be engaging himself into battle just so that he can get his death done and over with. Merry was fighting to defend Theoden in his death and Pippen’s fighting was more like to join Frodo in his death.
Lesson to learn here is never assume!
Desi * * * From: Ruscosenda Sent: 5/5/2003 12:28 PM I'm not sure I agree with you, Desi. I always thought Pippin was defending Beregond from the troll. The troll had just dealt Beregond a crushing blow and was about to rip him open, when Pippin stepped in and slew the troll. Unfortunately, the troll fell on Pippin, literally crushing the life out of him. Also, I thought it was Eowyn that was defending the body of Theoden and that Merry attacked the Witch King in her defense. -- Rusco * * * From: Desi-Baggins Sent: 5/5/2003 3:10 PM I can see it your way too Rusco! Kinda funny how that works! Desi
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