Post by Andorinha on Jan 19, 2009 11:12:06 GMT -6
Week four - Maeglin
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Message 1 of 12 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 5/4/2002 7:42 PM
Maeglin stood by, and watched them execute his father. Of course, he had just seen him murder his mother....
Do you feel pity for Maeglin? Or is he as sinister as his father?
For that matter, do you feel pity for Eol? Or is he just a "dark" elf?
And what about Aredhel? What's her role in this family?
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Message 2 of 12 in Discussion
From: jerseyshore
Sent: 5/5/2002 2:39 PM
I'm a first time reader of the Sil, so I have no idea what may come of Maeglin in later days, but he makes me very uneasy. He shows so little emotion at anything that happens to his parents. How can he have no reaction to the loss of both nurturers in such a short time? Even if he was not that close to his father, he seemed to have a very good relationship with his mother. Her death at least should have prompted some reaction.
The chapter says he is valiant and hard-working, but there is so much repression of feelings and love of power that I'm afraid he will be a twisted, unhealthy character as he grows older. His feelings for Idril sound like a festering sore that will cause pain to more than just him. I fear for those around him.
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Message 3 of 12 in Discussion
From: Lady_Oiolaire
Sent: 5/5/2002 6:13 PM
What gets my attention is how many similaritys Maeglin's story has with that of King Author. (according to the majority of the ways the legend is told.)
Author's mother did not love his father, it was a forced marrage. Author fell in love with (or was seduced by) his half sister MorganLeFay, and they had a boy named Mordred. Mordred grew up to kill his father (is some stories his twin brother too)
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Message 4 of 12 in Discussion
From: Azurite
Sent: 5/6/2002 2:52 PM
I distrusted Maeglin; and I'm not sure why, because Tolkien's description of him seemed to have nothing partiuclarly negative about it. On the other hand, he seemed to have few loyalties or committments to either his mother or his father, and I felt there was an implication that he was the type to use people and then drop them when he had learned what he could from them.
Besides, in Tolkien the father-son bond is very strong, and this is one of the times it seems entirely absent. That doesn't bode well.
namaste,
Azurite
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Message 5 of 12 in Discussion
From: rivers
Sent: 5/7/2002 1:36 AM
I find myself disliking anyone who would force someone to yield to them against thier wishes. Maeglin love of Idril is an unclean vice that apparently he picked up from his dad who forced his mother to live and coexist with him. It is sad that such fine potential was marred by unrequited love. The scorned Maeglin was corrupted by his feelings for Idril and it changed him to a power hungry villian. To love someone and not be loved in return is hard. An noble and courageous man would either silently suffer and get over it or make an ass of himself and then get over it. Maeglin hung on to it until it twisted his thoughts and actions quite a shame.
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Message 6 of 12 in Discussion
From: Stormrider
Sent: 5/7/2002 6:20 AM
Maeglin was held captive by his father, Eöl, for most of his early life. He was not allowed outside of Nan Elmoth unless he accompanied his father outside of it. His mother, Aredhel, was held capitive in marriage to Eöl. She must have put so much love into her tales of her family and home that her family looked so much more glamorous to Maeglin. Listening to his mother, he saw that there was a much more desirable place to live and inherit other than the dark, dreary woods of Eöl.
He tricked Aredhel into taking him with her to Gondolin. With both parents dead, neither of them could interfere with his plan to get in "good" with Uncle Turgon. So Maeglin brown-nosed Turgon and the other folk living in Gondolin with his great deeds in battle and in the mines so they thought he would be worthy enough to inherit the realm. Luckily Idril saw him for what he was and did not like nor trust him.
Stormrider
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Message 7 of 12 in Discussion
From: heb864
Sent: 5/7/2002 12:55 PM
I found that Maeglin made me uncomfortable from his first appearance. Tolkien has often used foreshadowing in his stories, so I know that we haven't heard the last from this character.
In this story, we have a curse. As Eol is sentenced to die, he looks to Maeglin for support, but finds only silence. He curses his son: "So you forsake your father and his kin, ill-gotten son! Here shall you fail of all your hopes, and here may you yet die the same death as I".
And so, Maeglin lurks like a serpent in the garden, coveting his cousin and positioning himself for greatness. Yuck.
Hilary
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Message 8 of 12 in Discussion
From: Tumnus
Sent: 5/7/2002 12:58 PM
I think that the story of Maeglin is going to be suspiciously similar to the story of Anakin Skywalker. Although Anakin doesn't have a father, Maeglin's father isn't a real father in any emotional way. Both hold their feelings inside. Both are tempted by the 'dark side.' Anakin has a forbidden love, and Maeglin has an unrequited love. Both are in positions to receive power, and want power to control their lives and their lovers. As you probably know, Lucas was influenced by Tolkien, although I don't know if he ever read the Sil. Anyways, this is just a thought. Since Episode II is coming out this month, we will see...
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Message 9 of 12 in Discussion
Sent: 11/6/2002 12:10 PM
This message has been deleted by the author.
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Message 10 of 12 in Discussion
Sent: 11/24/2002 1:53 PM
This message has been deleted by the author.
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Message 11 of 12 in Discussion
From: DaleAnn
Sent: 2/20/2003 7:02 AM
I read Splintered Light by Verlyn Flieger recently. One of the things that I keep going over in my mind is her analysis of Maeglin. She states that in the Silmarillion, Elves are physically and metaphorically moving away from the Light. Maeglin manifests this impulse in one of the most negative ways. He is an intermingling of light, half light and dark through his parents (Noldor and Sindar). His mother is called the Whie Lady of the Noldor, Aredhel Ar-Feiniel. His Father should be a Grey elf (half light) but because he prefers the dark, he is known as the "Dark Elf". Once she is married to him, Aredhel wanders the land under the stars and sickle moon, or semi-darkness.
Aredhel names Maeglin, Lomion "Child of the Twilight." "Maeglin's function in the story is to be darkness hidden within light, a darkness that eventually (albeit only in part) overcomes the light." pg 123.
When Aredhel and Maeglin reach Gondolin, he meets Idril "Sparkling Brilliance." He cannot marry her because they are first cousins and she does not return his love. His inner darkness then betrays Gondolin.
Over and over again, Flieger demonstrates the metaphorical meanings of light and dark throughout Tolkien's writings. Great book! --DA
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Message 12 of 12 in Discussion
From: Stormrider
Sent: 2/20/2003 9:46 PM
DaleAnn:
I do not have this book. It sounds very interesting. What does it say about Eärendil and his returing a Silmaril to Aman? This act opened up the distance between the Valar and the Elves again. What does it say about Eärendil being set to sail in the skies with Elwing? Maybe this would be better continued on an Eärendil thread in this study?!?
Stormrider
_______________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 12 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 5/4/2002 7:42 PM
Maeglin stood by, and watched them execute his father. Of course, he had just seen him murder his mother....
Do you feel pity for Maeglin? Or is he as sinister as his father?
For that matter, do you feel pity for Eol? Or is he just a "dark" elf?
And what about Aredhel? What's her role in this family?
___________________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 12 in Discussion
From: jerseyshore
Sent: 5/5/2002 2:39 PM
I'm a first time reader of the Sil, so I have no idea what may come of Maeglin in later days, but he makes me very uneasy. He shows so little emotion at anything that happens to his parents. How can he have no reaction to the loss of both nurturers in such a short time? Even if he was not that close to his father, he seemed to have a very good relationship with his mother. Her death at least should have prompted some reaction.
The chapter says he is valiant and hard-working, but there is so much repression of feelings and love of power that I'm afraid he will be a twisted, unhealthy character as he grows older. His feelings for Idril sound like a festering sore that will cause pain to more than just him. I fear for those around him.
__________________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 12 in Discussion
From: Lady_Oiolaire
Sent: 5/5/2002 6:13 PM
What gets my attention is how many similaritys Maeglin's story has with that of King Author. (according to the majority of the ways the legend is told.)
Author's mother did not love his father, it was a forced marrage. Author fell in love with (or was seduced by) his half sister MorganLeFay, and they had a boy named Mordred. Mordred grew up to kill his father (is some stories his twin brother too)
___________________________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 12 in Discussion
From: Azurite
Sent: 5/6/2002 2:52 PM
I distrusted Maeglin; and I'm not sure why, because Tolkien's description of him seemed to have nothing partiuclarly negative about it. On the other hand, he seemed to have few loyalties or committments to either his mother or his father, and I felt there was an implication that he was the type to use people and then drop them when he had learned what he could from them.
Besides, in Tolkien the father-son bond is very strong, and this is one of the times it seems entirely absent. That doesn't bode well.
namaste,
Azurite
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 12 in Discussion
From: rivers
Sent: 5/7/2002 1:36 AM
I find myself disliking anyone who would force someone to yield to them against thier wishes. Maeglin love of Idril is an unclean vice that apparently he picked up from his dad who forced his mother to live and coexist with him. It is sad that such fine potential was marred by unrequited love. The scorned Maeglin was corrupted by his feelings for Idril and it changed him to a power hungry villian. To love someone and not be loved in return is hard. An noble and courageous man would either silently suffer and get over it or make an ass of himself and then get over it. Maeglin hung on to it until it twisted his thoughts and actions quite a shame.
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 6 of 12 in Discussion
From: Stormrider
Sent: 5/7/2002 6:20 AM
Maeglin was held captive by his father, Eöl, for most of his early life. He was not allowed outside of Nan Elmoth unless he accompanied his father outside of it. His mother, Aredhel, was held capitive in marriage to Eöl. She must have put so much love into her tales of her family and home that her family looked so much more glamorous to Maeglin. Listening to his mother, he saw that there was a much more desirable place to live and inherit other than the dark, dreary woods of Eöl.
He tricked Aredhel into taking him with her to Gondolin. With both parents dead, neither of them could interfere with his plan to get in "good" with Uncle Turgon. So Maeglin brown-nosed Turgon and the other folk living in Gondolin with his great deeds in battle and in the mines so they thought he would be worthy enough to inherit the realm. Luckily Idril saw him for what he was and did not like nor trust him.
Stormrider
______________________________________________
Reply
Message 7 of 12 in Discussion
From: heb864
Sent: 5/7/2002 12:55 PM
I found that Maeglin made me uncomfortable from his first appearance. Tolkien has often used foreshadowing in his stories, so I know that we haven't heard the last from this character.
In this story, we have a curse. As Eol is sentenced to die, he looks to Maeglin for support, but finds only silence. He curses his son: "So you forsake your father and his kin, ill-gotten son! Here shall you fail of all your hopes, and here may you yet die the same death as I".
And so, Maeglin lurks like a serpent in the garden, coveting his cousin and positioning himself for greatness. Yuck.
Hilary
____________________________________________
Reply
Message 8 of 12 in Discussion
From: Tumnus
Sent: 5/7/2002 12:58 PM
I think that the story of Maeglin is going to be suspiciously similar to the story of Anakin Skywalker. Although Anakin doesn't have a father, Maeglin's father isn't a real father in any emotional way. Both hold their feelings inside. Both are tempted by the 'dark side.' Anakin has a forbidden love, and Maeglin has an unrequited love. Both are in positions to receive power, and want power to control their lives and their lovers. As you probably know, Lucas was influenced by Tolkien, although I don't know if he ever read the Sil. Anyways, this is just a thought. Since Episode II is coming out this month, we will see...
_______________________________________________
Reply
Message 9 of 12 in Discussion
Sent: 11/6/2002 12:10 PM
This message has been deleted by the author.
___________________________________________________
Reply
Message 10 of 12 in Discussion
Sent: 11/24/2002 1:53 PM
This message has been deleted by the author.
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 11 of 12 in Discussion
From: DaleAnn
Sent: 2/20/2003 7:02 AM
I read Splintered Light by Verlyn Flieger recently. One of the things that I keep going over in my mind is her analysis of Maeglin. She states that in the Silmarillion, Elves are physically and metaphorically moving away from the Light. Maeglin manifests this impulse in one of the most negative ways. He is an intermingling of light, half light and dark through his parents (Noldor and Sindar). His mother is called the Whie Lady of the Noldor, Aredhel Ar-Feiniel. His Father should be a Grey elf (half light) but because he prefers the dark, he is known as the "Dark Elf". Once she is married to him, Aredhel wanders the land under the stars and sickle moon, or semi-darkness.
Aredhel names Maeglin, Lomion "Child of the Twilight." "Maeglin's function in the story is to be darkness hidden within light, a darkness that eventually (albeit only in part) overcomes the light." pg 123.
When Aredhel and Maeglin reach Gondolin, he meets Idril "Sparkling Brilliance." He cannot marry her because they are first cousins and she does not return his love. His inner darkness then betrays Gondolin.
Over and over again, Flieger demonstrates the metaphorical meanings of light and dark throughout Tolkien's writings. Great book! --DA
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 12 of 12 in Discussion
From: Stormrider
Sent: 2/20/2003 9:46 PM
DaleAnn:
I do not have this book. It sounds very interesting. What does it say about Eärendil and his returing a Silmaril to Aman? This act opened up the distance between the Valar and the Elves again. What does it say about Eärendil being set to sail in the skies with Elwing? Maybe this would be better continued on an Eärendil thread in this study?!?
Stormrider