Post by Stormrider on Jan 20, 2009 20:16:35 GMT -6
From: Lord_Algamesh (Original Message) Sent: 10/21/2002 10:13 AM
During our Week One reading, we discover another blow to the Fellowship - Boromir has been slain. Examining the character of Boromir, what purpose did he serve in the story? In my opinion, Boromir was basically a plot device used by Tolkien to introduce a few major themes ... strength of Will, the nature of Man, Repentance ... among others. What are other purposes for the Boromir character?
* * *
From: LovesBeren Sent: 10/21/2002 10:44 PM
First to understand Boromir, I think you must compare him to Aragorn... or vice versa. But he is not a foil of Aragorn, rather he compliments his character. Boromir is a "composite of the hopes and dreams" of men and reminds me of what Isildur might have been like...but I haven't read anything outside the LotR on Isildur to know if I would be right on this. Whereas I see Aragorn as a composite of all that is "good and what has been learned since the beginning of the 3rd age" about men. Algy, I consider one of the themes you brought up:
Strength of will: How did Boromir see the Ring and why was his will broken? First we know that he knew of it's lore. But instead of heeding the lessons of the past, he hoped to use it in the same way it was used before by men. (What is insanity... doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result - couldn't help it...it's the teacher in me). Aragorn who was also trained in the lore looked for the lessons learned in the past. He was resolved not to use the Ring before it could have it's power over him (kinda like you don't make up your mind not to drugs when it's offered - again couldn't help myself)
Boromir is not a bad man... no, far from it. He is is well-meaning leader and wants what is best for his people, however in comparison, Aragorn shows the ideallic integerity. Additionally, I don't think we would easily identify that quality of Aragorn without Boromir's character. We might have missed it without Boromir there to contrast it. Are there any other contrasts that are there?
I will let others comment on the other themes you suggest... but I'll come back if I see any I think have been missed... I could have written an entire book here.
* * *
From: Starlight Sent: 10/22/2002 10:12 AM
This topic is so interesting, I had to come and write a few comments on it. I agree with both Algamesh and Luthien in regards to Boromir's role in the book. I think Boromir is the best example of the ring's true power. From him we learn what the evil of this weapon can do to a good, noble, honorable, strong man, and what kind of ruin it can bring to a whole people. Boromir is such a noble man! But, the ring finds its way to his heart, and shows him the promises of a bright future if he would but wield it against the dark lord. This also shows Aragorn what would his future be if he lets the ring get hold of his heart. Boromir is also a way of letting us all into Minas Tirith and learning about its ancestry, nobility, and decay... which is one of the reasons Boromir has in pursuing the ring. Through Boromir we are also introduced into one of the most interesting families in this book, Denethor's. We will later learn about the Steward and his younger son, and how they all shape the history of the war of the ring.
Well, I know there is so much more to say! I will come back and write some more later. This is all very interesting, and I look forward to hearing your views on it.
Have a great day!
* * *
From: megn1 Sent: 10/22/2002 11:39 PM
I think everyone here is probably right - the main function of Boromir is to highlight the traits of other characters. But not only Aragorn. He also reaveals the nature of Saruman, and even more dramatically Denethor, Boromir's father. To avoid spoilers, I won't say more about them here, except to say that there is a powerful lesson to be learned in comparing the choices of Denethor and Boromir.
Also, to a lesser degree, Boromir is a foil for the hobbits - particularly Merry and Pippin. Boromir cares about the young hobbits, but he sees them mostly as baggage to be protected and sometimes carried. That's how we view them while Boromir is around. Meanwhile, Boromir is strong, competent, self-assured, and never doubts which path he would choose, if he were leading the fellowship. Yet small hands are the ones that work the greatest deeds of this war...
* * *
From: Olórië Sent: 10/23/2002 1:24 AM
Starlight wrote:
I think Boromir is the best example of the ring's true power...Boromir is such a noble man! But, the ring finds its way to his heart...
I agree, and in Boromir, as in no other character, we see exactly how the Ring works and why it is so frightening. We see the best impulses of a man of noble character -- his love of family and country, his wish to protect and serve -- used against him, twisted, so he cannot see that he is doing evil as he tries to do good. We knew that Gandalf and Galadriel, as each turned down Frodo's offer of the Ring, had feared that, with it, they would do great evil through their own good intentions. But we have little evidence of that, and it's still easy for us to believe that a strong, good character might help to prevail against the Ring's pull. But in Boromir, Gandalf's and Galadriel's fears are made concrete; we actually see selfless, altruistic motives produce a terrible result. For me, this is where the story gets real -- for if the Ring can turn our own good natures against us, what defense can there be? The rest of the book is an exploration of, and an answer to, that question.
* * *
From: Redha Sent: 10/29/2002 9:39 PM
Such great posts!
I find it interesting, as Luthien pointed out, that those who understand the Ring's power are hesitant to accept the Ring when offered to them. Perhaps because of his lesser comprehension, Boromir is more easily victimized. He is not a student of lore like his brother, Faramir. Given his motivation, what he learns at the Council of Elrond, he is reluctant to give real weight. He certainly would not hesitate a moment to take it if offered. Always the Ring is a greater temptation to the very proud. Also, Boromir is of the race of Men who, as Isildur showed, are very susceptable to the Ring's lure. So, poor Boromir had three counts against him before the Quest even got started. Only at his end does Boromir seem to grasp it's evil nature. However even then, he blames himself, not the Ring.
Redha
During our Week One reading, we discover another blow to the Fellowship - Boromir has been slain. Examining the character of Boromir, what purpose did he serve in the story? In my opinion, Boromir was basically a plot device used by Tolkien to introduce a few major themes ... strength of Will, the nature of Man, Repentance ... among others. What are other purposes for the Boromir character?
* * *
From: LovesBeren Sent: 10/21/2002 10:44 PM
First to understand Boromir, I think you must compare him to Aragorn... or vice versa. But he is not a foil of Aragorn, rather he compliments his character. Boromir is a "composite of the hopes and dreams" of men and reminds me of what Isildur might have been like...but I haven't read anything outside the LotR on Isildur to know if I would be right on this. Whereas I see Aragorn as a composite of all that is "good and what has been learned since the beginning of the 3rd age" about men. Algy, I consider one of the themes you brought up:
Strength of will: How did Boromir see the Ring and why was his will broken? First we know that he knew of it's lore. But instead of heeding the lessons of the past, he hoped to use it in the same way it was used before by men. (What is insanity... doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result - couldn't help it...it's the teacher in me). Aragorn who was also trained in the lore looked for the lessons learned in the past. He was resolved not to use the Ring before it could have it's power over him (kinda like you don't make up your mind not to drugs when it's offered - again couldn't help myself)
Boromir is not a bad man... no, far from it. He is is well-meaning leader and wants what is best for his people, however in comparison, Aragorn shows the ideallic integerity. Additionally, I don't think we would easily identify that quality of Aragorn without Boromir's character. We might have missed it without Boromir there to contrast it. Are there any other contrasts that are there?
I will let others comment on the other themes you suggest... but I'll come back if I see any I think have been missed... I could have written an entire book here.
* * *
From: Starlight Sent: 10/22/2002 10:12 AM
This topic is so interesting, I had to come and write a few comments on it. I agree with both Algamesh and Luthien in regards to Boromir's role in the book. I think Boromir is the best example of the ring's true power. From him we learn what the evil of this weapon can do to a good, noble, honorable, strong man, and what kind of ruin it can bring to a whole people. Boromir is such a noble man! But, the ring finds its way to his heart, and shows him the promises of a bright future if he would but wield it against the dark lord. This also shows Aragorn what would his future be if he lets the ring get hold of his heart. Boromir is also a way of letting us all into Minas Tirith and learning about its ancestry, nobility, and decay... which is one of the reasons Boromir has in pursuing the ring. Through Boromir we are also introduced into one of the most interesting families in this book, Denethor's. We will later learn about the Steward and his younger son, and how they all shape the history of the war of the ring.
Well, I know there is so much more to say! I will come back and write some more later. This is all very interesting, and I look forward to hearing your views on it.
Have a great day!
* * *
From: megn1 Sent: 10/22/2002 11:39 PM
I think everyone here is probably right - the main function of Boromir is to highlight the traits of other characters. But not only Aragorn. He also reaveals the nature of Saruman, and even more dramatically Denethor, Boromir's father. To avoid spoilers, I won't say more about them here, except to say that there is a powerful lesson to be learned in comparing the choices of Denethor and Boromir.
Also, to a lesser degree, Boromir is a foil for the hobbits - particularly Merry and Pippin. Boromir cares about the young hobbits, but he sees them mostly as baggage to be protected and sometimes carried. That's how we view them while Boromir is around. Meanwhile, Boromir is strong, competent, self-assured, and never doubts which path he would choose, if he were leading the fellowship. Yet small hands are the ones that work the greatest deeds of this war...
* * *
From: Olórië Sent: 10/23/2002 1:24 AM
Starlight wrote:
I think Boromir is the best example of the ring's true power...Boromir is such a noble man! But, the ring finds its way to his heart...
I agree, and in Boromir, as in no other character, we see exactly how the Ring works and why it is so frightening. We see the best impulses of a man of noble character -- his love of family and country, his wish to protect and serve -- used against him, twisted, so he cannot see that he is doing evil as he tries to do good. We knew that Gandalf and Galadriel, as each turned down Frodo's offer of the Ring, had feared that, with it, they would do great evil through their own good intentions. But we have little evidence of that, and it's still easy for us to believe that a strong, good character might help to prevail against the Ring's pull. But in Boromir, Gandalf's and Galadriel's fears are made concrete; we actually see selfless, altruistic motives produce a terrible result. For me, this is where the story gets real -- for if the Ring can turn our own good natures against us, what defense can there be? The rest of the book is an exploration of, and an answer to, that question.
* * *
From: Redha Sent: 10/29/2002 9:39 PM
Such great posts!
I find it interesting, as Luthien pointed out, that those who understand the Ring's power are hesitant to accept the Ring when offered to them. Perhaps because of his lesser comprehension, Boromir is more easily victimized. He is not a student of lore like his brother, Faramir. Given his motivation, what he learns at the Council of Elrond, he is reluctant to give real weight. He certainly would not hesitate a moment to take it if offered. Always the Ring is a greater temptation to the very proud. Also, Boromir is of the race of Men who, as Isildur showed, are very susceptable to the Ring's lure. So, poor Boromir had three counts against him before the Quest even got started. Only at his end does Boromir seem to grasp it's evil nature. However even then, he blames himself, not the Ring.
Redha