Post by Stormrider on Jan 21, 2009 7:22:52 GMT -6
From: Lord_Algamesh (Original Message) Sent: 11/6/2002 9:16 PM
During our Week Three assignment, we find the duality of Legolas and Gimli very prominent. Tolkien placed a great deal of thought into the relationship of both characters and into developing a strong bond between the two. An entire subplot was constructed in the battle of Helm's Deep to showcase a game (gruesome though it may be) enjoyed privately by both.
Even more prominent is Legolas' statement when the two are standing on outer wall of Helm's Deep peering into the darkness beyond:
"But you are a dwarf, and dwarves are strange folk. I do not like this place and I shall like it no more by the light of day. But you comfort me, Gimli, and I am glad to have you standing nigh with your stout legs and your hard axe."
Compare this to Gimli's statement in Fangorn from Chapter Five:
"You are a Wood-elf anyway, though elves of any kind are strange folk. Yet you comfort me. Where you go I will go. But keep your bow ready to hand, and I will keep my axe loose in my belt."
What theme(s) and/or issue(s) was Tolkien addressing by the interactions of Gimli and Legolas? Do you feel that this part of the saga was influenced by anything in Tolkien's life or maybe as a result of the events of that decade?
* * *
From: Alaere_Dûnhilien Sent: 11/7/2002 4:08 AM
Legolas and Gimli are the perfect example of what can happen when people of different races and cultures put aside their differences and focus on what they have in common. Their friendship has developed so far that they know they can rely on one another, and that they are willing to endure something that they might be afraid of, or at least feel oncomfortable with, for the sake of the other one. Although both of them are very different, they also have a lot in common, most obvious their hatred of Orcs and other Evil. I found their game funny actually. Sure, it was gruesome, but also it was funny to read how they were competing with each other to slay the most Orcs. They both are valiant warriors, and they share the same loyalty to the members of their company, and they have endured so much together. I think it is inevitable that this shapes a bond, not only between them, but to all members of the fellowship.
I think that this part is surely influenced by the events of the decade. Tolkien had experienced two world wars, and a great deal of the WW II was based on cultural differences (Germans against Jews). It is known that Tolkien disapproved of this, and maybe this was his way to tell the world how they can do better. Also, when he moved to England with his family, he must have experienced some kind of culture shock too. There is a lot of difference between Africa and England. He was young when they moved, but that is probably all the more reason why it must have influenced him in a way.
Lara Bumbleroot of Haysend
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From: LovesBeren Sent: 12/29/2002 11:11 PM
The obvious purpose of the Gimli and Legolas relationship is the symbolism of the two races finding common ground. Although astranged at first (both as a race and personally...from their father's perspective from the Hobbit) But now they are both fighting a common enemy. It doesn't seem that Legolas truly is in competition with Gimli, but I think he is helping his friend "get in the mood" for warfare... think for a minute... isn't this competition very dwarf-like?" Legolas is playing along not for his own motivation in war, but to help a good friend do what must be done...
Thoughts and musings,
Luthien (Sarah)
During our Week Three assignment, we find the duality of Legolas and Gimli very prominent. Tolkien placed a great deal of thought into the relationship of both characters and into developing a strong bond between the two. An entire subplot was constructed in the battle of Helm's Deep to showcase a game (gruesome though it may be) enjoyed privately by both.
Even more prominent is Legolas' statement when the two are standing on outer wall of Helm's Deep peering into the darkness beyond:
"But you are a dwarf, and dwarves are strange folk. I do not like this place and I shall like it no more by the light of day. But you comfort me, Gimli, and I am glad to have you standing nigh with your stout legs and your hard axe."
Compare this to Gimli's statement in Fangorn from Chapter Five:
"You are a Wood-elf anyway, though elves of any kind are strange folk. Yet you comfort me. Where you go I will go. But keep your bow ready to hand, and I will keep my axe loose in my belt."
What theme(s) and/or issue(s) was Tolkien addressing by the interactions of Gimli and Legolas? Do you feel that this part of the saga was influenced by anything in Tolkien's life or maybe as a result of the events of that decade?
* * *
From: Alaere_Dûnhilien Sent: 11/7/2002 4:08 AM
Legolas and Gimli are the perfect example of what can happen when people of different races and cultures put aside their differences and focus on what they have in common. Their friendship has developed so far that they know they can rely on one another, and that they are willing to endure something that they might be afraid of, or at least feel oncomfortable with, for the sake of the other one. Although both of them are very different, they also have a lot in common, most obvious their hatred of Orcs and other Evil. I found their game funny actually. Sure, it was gruesome, but also it was funny to read how they were competing with each other to slay the most Orcs. They both are valiant warriors, and they share the same loyalty to the members of their company, and they have endured so much together. I think it is inevitable that this shapes a bond, not only between them, but to all members of the fellowship.
I think that this part is surely influenced by the events of the decade. Tolkien had experienced two world wars, and a great deal of the WW II was based on cultural differences (Germans against Jews). It is known that Tolkien disapproved of this, and maybe this was his way to tell the world how they can do better. Also, when he moved to England with his family, he must have experienced some kind of culture shock too. There is a lot of difference between Africa and England. He was young when they moved, but that is probably all the more reason why it must have influenced him in a way.
Lara Bumbleroot of Haysend
* * *
From: LovesBeren Sent: 12/29/2002 11:11 PM
The obvious purpose of the Gimli and Legolas relationship is the symbolism of the two races finding common ground. Although astranged at first (both as a race and personally...from their father's perspective from the Hobbit) But now they are both fighting a common enemy. It doesn't seem that Legolas truly is in competition with Gimli, but I think he is helping his friend "get in the mood" for warfare... think for a minute... isn't this competition very dwarf-like?" Legolas is playing along not for his own motivation in war, but to help a good friend do what must be done...
Thoughts and musings,
Luthien (Sarah)