Post by Andorinha on Feb 12, 2009 10:57:13 GMT -6
Not Tolkien, but an issue
____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 5 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 3/8/2003 9:40 PM
My local paper was stuffed with editorials with regards to our situation and the capture of the supected terrorist mastermind of 9/11. I published this in answer to all whom who though torture of this prisoner was acceptable. I don't really have any answers, and I hope I don't offend any, but I thought this important to say.
Iarwain
What Word of the War Sir?
What word of the War and of how we fare.
Is a blatant, personal out pouring
Of my current, potential scares.
Apologies out to all who see it vain, depressive, or boring.
All critique is welcome, yet from plain debate I’ll flee.
Unless asker’s questions asked.
Are logged within verse like me.
For then will the inquirer’s question be truly tasked
Our first item up for bids is the theory of our attack.
U.S. claiming unprecedented tact
Using planes, armor, and men as one unit devistate Iraq.
Yet Germany called it “Blitzkrieg” a forgotten World War fact.
I feel such sadness, as memories of world war’s pain.
Vanish from our knowledge.
From simple loneliness or destined reapers bane.
Wars sadistic politics are oft not taught in college.
Seems those who remember are old and too few.
No questions asked, tales seldom given.
Info from the media, not from those who knew.
Tyrants tend to appear, when fomer witnessess stop liven.
Which brings us now to item two our captive mastermind.
No court has yet convicted.
Yet subject of his torture seems a fact consigned.
Seems we have forgotten USA to justice was once addicted.
I’ve heard his torture will save lives with any info that he has.
But it sets an evil precedent.
For any of our troops captured might now face a likewise raze.
And who can map a house where no longer they’re a resident.
And if indeed he is PROVEN guilty of the heinous Tower attack.
To what end would he have of use.
Since most of the Muslim people in Sadam’s pack.
Would gladly kill Osama or at him hurl some abuse.
Yet torture seems the topic so again I ask you why?
He served his purpose, did his thing.
Yet defended not, a decoy left to die.
Seems even eyes of justice blind would hear this pigeon sing.
So where do place our faith so just, in a twisted, greedy, world?
Is relegion an answer we seek?
Like the crusadic herald with blazoned banner unfurled.
Yet no world will the aggressive get, it's fate goes to the meek.
So you’ve heard my metered ravings about this week so grim.
Seems even Christian Science.
Wants to get first punch at him.
But without Our Courts conviction, Our Laws sit we within blatant defiance.
I am an American, I used to be proud. Since 9/11 I have become more and more terrified about the choices my leaders are making. From all the media information I can put together it seems we are being talked/conned into a war. Who and why are the answers I have yet to fathom, yet I do fathom our present course as one of disaster. Reactionary thinking is no way to run a nation. Please pray against this if you pray. Meditate for peace. Define justice within yourself, and prepare for the worst. I wish I could say I don’t want to scare anyone, but if that’s what it takes……
I believe in freedom, justice, and our Constitution. I would gladly give my life to protect my country. I just don’t see how this long build up to an unprovoked, and non-UN supported attack of Iraq will in anyway solve or help our terrorism issue with Al-Qaidah
Namárië,
Iarwain
___________________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 5 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameBelfalas_Maid
Sent: 3/8/2003 10:50 PM
Hi Iarwain,
I couldn't agree with you more! Thank you for posting this! I love this
country too, I've lived here all my life. I am however in great fear of the
things that the government is doing in the name of terror control, seems to
me, we are becoming the terrorists by killing innocent women, children and
elderly. Yes Saddam is a madman, but why should all the people of a country
have to suffer for one madman? Blood for blood is never right. I really
wonder also if this is not just all about oil! and a personal vendetta. I
leave you with a qoute, by whom I don't remember maybe someone else does.
"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing."
Peace,
Mary Ann (Belfalasmaid)
>From: "Iarwain Ben-adar" <jsiebert400@msn.com>
>Reply-To: "Tolkien's Ring" <tolkiensring@groups.msn.com>
>To: "Tolkien's Ring" <tolkiensring@groups.msn.com>
>Subject: Not Tolkien, but an issue
>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:40:13 -0800
>
____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 5 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameLord_Algamesh
Sent: 3/8/2003 11:24 PM
Well written my brother ! But, I must admit that I am more in favor of war than many I have talked to online. Sure ... I have reservations about it but then I think about how Sadaam has failed to comply with the wishes of the world community for 12 long years. I remember when Kuwait was being assaulted by the Republican Guard under direct orders from Sadaam in '91. I recall Sadaam testing his own weapons of mass destruction on his own population. I now observe Sadaam purchasing military uniforms of U.S. and U.K. origin. It goes on and on ...
I really have a gut feeling that to leave this guy alone or to allow him to delay and confuse the U.N. would result in something tragic and unprovoked somewhere in the world.
And then I ask myself why France, Germany, Russia and China can't seem to see that Sadaam only "makes progress" when the eleventh hour has come and gone. This is definitely the action of someone playing a game and I don't think it's acceptable for anyone to defy the world community.
Having stated my position, I must also recognize the fact that the death toll of the innocent will be horrible. But, I weigh this against what I feel the death toll will be when Sadaam finally has the lease in his own hands ...
I watched a news program today and they were interviewing a young lady whose family defected from Iraq in the mid-90's (post gulf war). She stated that the true Iraqi population was crying out for liberation from Sadaam and his Sunni regime. She told the story of her uncles being executed for their beliefs and what crime can compare with this?
I could go on and on about this ... I feel very emphatically that we must go to Iraq and we must destroy a monster. My only stronger concern for foreign matters lies with the North Korean situation ...
-Algamesh
_____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 5 in Discussion
From: Endirion
Sent: 3/8/2003 11:51 PM
Over us hangs darkness
By fell enemy wielded,
And light opposeth them,
By light we are shielded.
Night cannot overwhelm night;
Only shining rectitude prevails;
Shadow only grows when shadows fight;
When evil faces evil, virtue fails.
If one strikes out foully at the foul,
Then justice falls, without a place to stand;
Monstrosity takes on the priestly cowl,
And freedom drains with blood into the sand.
Only true nobility can nobly win;
To basely strike the base is still a sin.
Saddam is a monster, and I do so hate him. I would fight him with all my strength, and feel justified. But we are America...we usually are on the side of virtue, and when we are not, we feel the pain of shame because we defame our ancestors and our creed. We don't start wars and remain what we wish to be. I have been to war. I have felt the sting of wounds. I bear the scars. And I know the other man feels pain as well; bullets do not care whom they strike. Saddam annoys us and besmirches the world and his own people with his evil. But he has not struck us. I fear, as do we all, that someday he may strike us. I do not wish to see that possibility come true. But we don't strike first and keep our virtue. When we do, we fall into the errors of the past which bring on hate and feed it, glutton-like, and make it grow. Vigilance is a virtue; vigilantism is not. I wish we had done this task a decade ago; we should have had right upon our side at that time. I love my country more than my own life...but this is not a good war. He is a beast...but I would not want to become one as well if that is what is needed to strike him down.
_______________________________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 5 in Discussion
From: Fosco Baggins
Sent: 3/9/2003 7:57 AM
As much as I despise war, much evil can be done by inaction. Torture and murder is done everyday there, for no other reason than monetary and power gain. Saddam's family is so entrenched there, running every aspect of government, they are free to rape and murder their people with impunity. It was stated in this thread, that they did not attack first. I remember reading some Christian thoughts about " God stating that what you do to the least of my creatures, you do to me". If we have the power to stop the atrocities, do we not sin by doing nothing?
There is no doubt in my mind, that left in power, Saddam will eventually let lose a chemical and nuclear horror on the world. His ego is not rational. The man has statues, palaces, and pictures of himself created almost daily for the people to worship, while they live beneath the poverty level. Does this sound like someone we should trust or leave in power?
Finally, my biggest worry is that should we succeed in removing him from power, we will then desert the Iraqi people like we have done in so many countries in the past?
We need to help them form a stable and beneficial government, free from the threat of Saddam or his family returning to terrorize them again. That part will be harder than the war.
____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 5 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 3/8/2003 9:40 PM
My local paper was stuffed with editorials with regards to our situation and the capture of the supected terrorist mastermind of 9/11. I published this in answer to all whom who though torture of this prisoner was acceptable. I don't really have any answers, and I hope I don't offend any, but I thought this important to say.
Iarwain
What Word of the War Sir?
What word of the War and of how we fare.
Is a blatant, personal out pouring
Of my current, potential scares.
Apologies out to all who see it vain, depressive, or boring.
All critique is welcome, yet from plain debate I’ll flee.
Unless asker’s questions asked.
Are logged within verse like me.
For then will the inquirer’s question be truly tasked
Our first item up for bids is the theory of our attack.
U.S. claiming unprecedented tact
Using planes, armor, and men as one unit devistate Iraq.
Yet Germany called it “Blitzkrieg” a forgotten World War fact.
I feel such sadness, as memories of world war’s pain.
Vanish from our knowledge.
From simple loneliness or destined reapers bane.
Wars sadistic politics are oft not taught in college.
Seems those who remember are old and too few.
No questions asked, tales seldom given.
Info from the media, not from those who knew.
Tyrants tend to appear, when fomer witnessess stop liven.
Which brings us now to item two our captive mastermind.
No court has yet convicted.
Yet subject of his torture seems a fact consigned.
Seems we have forgotten USA to justice was once addicted.
I’ve heard his torture will save lives with any info that he has.
But it sets an evil precedent.
For any of our troops captured might now face a likewise raze.
And who can map a house where no longer they’re a resident.
And if indeed he is PROVEN guilty of the heinous Tower attack.
To what end would he have of use.
Since most of the Muslim people in Sadam’s pack.
Would gladly kill Osama or at him hurl some abuse.
Yet torture seems the topic so again I ask you why?
He served his purpose, did his thing.
Yet defended not, a decoy left to die.
Seems even eyes of justice blind would hear this pigeon sing.
So where do place our faith so just, in a twisted, greedy, world?
Is relegion an answer we seek?
Like the crusadic herald with blazoned banner unfurled.
Yet no world will the aggressive get, it's fate goes to the meek.
So you’ve heard my metered ravings about this week so grim.
Seems even Christian Science.
Wants to get first punch at him.
But without Our Courts conviction, Our Laws sit we within blatant defiance.
I am an American, I used to be proud. Since 9/11 I have become more and more terrified about the choices my leaders are making. From all the media information I can put together it seems we are being talked/conned into a war. Who and why are the answers I have yet to fathom, yet I do fathom our present course as one of disaster. Reactionary thinking is no way to run a nation. Please pray against this if you pray. Meditate for peace. Define justice within yourself, and prepare for the worst. I wish I could say I don’t want to scare anyone, but if that’s what it takes……
I believe in freedom, justice, and our Constitution. I would gladly give my life to protect my country. I just don’t see how this long build up to an unprovoked, and non-UN supported attack of Iraq will in anyway solve or help our terrorism issue with Al-Qaidah
Namárië,
Iarwain
___________________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 5 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameBelfalas_Maid
Sent: 3/8/2003 10:50 PM
Hi Iarwain,
I couldn't agree with you more! Thank you for posting this! I love this
country too, I've lived here all my life. I am however in great fear of the
things that the government is doing in the name of terror control, seems to
me, we are becoming the terrorists by killing innocent women, children and
elderly. Yes Saddam is a madman, but why should all the people of a country
have to suffer for one madman? Blood for blood is never right. I really
wonder also if this is not just all about oil! and a personal vendetta. I
leave you with a qoute, by whom I don't remember maybe someone else does.
"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing."
Peace,
Mary Ann (Belfalasmaid)
>From: "Iarwain Ben-adar" <jsiebert400@msn.com>
>Reply-To: "Tolkien's Ring" <tolkiensring@groups.msn.com>
>To: "Tolkien's Ring" <tolkiensring@groups.msn.com>
>Subject: Not Tolkien, but an issue
>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:40:13 -0800
>
____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 5 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameLord_Algamesh
Sent: 3/8/2003 11:24 PM
Well written my brother ! But, I must admit that I am more in favor of war than many I have talked to online. Sure ... I have reservations about it but then I think about how Sadaam has failed to comply with the wishes of the world community for 12 long years. I remember when Kuwait was being assaulted by the Republican Guard under direct orders from Sadaam in '91. I recall Sadaam testing his own weapons of mass destruction on his own population. I now observe Sadaam purchasing military uniforms of U.S. and U.K. origin. It goes on and on ...
I really have a gut feeling that to leave this guy alone or to allow him to delay and confuse the U.N. would result in something tragic and unprovoked somewhere in the world.
And then I ask myself why France, Germany, Russia and China can't seem to see that Sadaam only "makes progress" when the eleventh hour has come and gone. This is definitely the action of someone playing a game and I don't think it's acceptable for anyone to defy the world community.
Having stated my position, I must also recognize the fact that the death toll of the innocent will be horrible. But, I weigh this against what I feel the death toll will be when Sadaam finally has the lease in his own hands ...
I watched a news program today and they were interviewing a young lady whose family defected from Iraq in the mid-90's (post gulf war). She stated that the true Iraqi population was crying out for liberation from Sadaam and his Sunni regime. She told the story of her uncles being executed for their beliefs and what crime can compare with this?
I could go on and on about this ... I feel very emphatically that we must go to Iraq and we must destroy a monster. My only stronger concern for foreign matters lies with the North Korean situation ...
-Algamesh
_____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 5 in Discussion
From: Endirion
Sent: 3/8/2003 11:51 PM
Over us hangs darkness
By fell enemy wielded,
And light opposeth them,
By light we are shielded.
Night cannot overwhelm night;
Only shining rectitude prevails;
Shadow only grows when shadows fight;
When evil faces evil, virtue fails.
If one strikes out foully at the foul,
Then justice falls, without a place to stand;
Monstrosity takes on the priestly cowl,
And freedom drains with blood into the sand.
Only true nobility can nobly win;
To basely strike the base is still a sin.
Saddam is a monster, and I do so hate him. I would fight him with all my strength, and feel justified. But we are America...we usually are on the side of virtue, and when we are not, we feel the pain of shame because we defame our ancestors and our creed. We don't start wars and remain what we wish to be. I have been to war. I have felt the sting of wounds. I bear the scars. And I know the other man feels pain as well; bullets do not care whom they strike. Saddam annoys us and besmirches the world and his own people with his evil. But he has not struck us. I fear, as do we all, that someday he may strike us. I do not wish to see that possibility come true. But we don't strike first and keep our virtue. When we do, we fall into the errors of the past which bring on hate and feed it, glutton-like, and make it grow. Vigilance is a virtue; vigilantism is not. I wish we had done this task a decade ago; we should have had right upon our side at that time. I love my country more than my own life...but this is not a good war. He is a beast...but I would not want to become one as well if that is what is needed to strike him down.
_______________________________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 5 in Discussion
From: Fosco Baggins
Sent: 3/9/2003 7:57 AM
As much as I despise war, much evil can be done by inaction. Torture and murder is done everyday there, for no other reason than monetary and power gain. Saddam's family is so entrenched there, running every aspect of government, they are free to rape and murder their people with impunity. It was stated in this thread, that they did not attack first. I remember reading some Christian thoughts about " God stating that what you do to the least of my creatures, you do to me". If we have the power to stop the atrocities, do we not sin by doing nothing?
There is no doubt in my mind, that left in power, Saddam will eventually let lose a chemical and nuclear horror on the world. His ego is not rational. The man has statues, palaces, and pictures of himself created almost daily for the people to worship, while they live beneath the poverty level. Does this sound like someone we should trust or leave in power?
Finally, my biggest worry is that should we succeed in removing him from power, we will then desert the Iraqi people like we have done in so many countries in the past?
We need to help them form a stable and beneficial government, free from the threat of Saddam or his family returning to terrorize them again. That part will be harder than the war.