|
Post by Stormrider on Jan 7, 2024 12:08:06 GMT -6
Denethor's Death
Book: It is a long way from the Closed Door with a guard holding the key. Then there are long stairs down to Rath Dinen and the Houses of the Stewards. After Gandalf rescues Faramir, he tried to talk Denethor into going out and leading his forces with good military commands, which Denethor refuses. He pulls the palantir from inside his robes, jumps onto the pyre, lights it and burns holding the palantir (which from then on showed aged hands burning and shriveling if one were to look into it).
Movie: I got the idea that Rath Dinen (if it was even called that in the movie) was in a building up at the top of the seventh circle perhaps behind the throne room or beside it. Denethor is on the pyre with Faramir together as it is lit. Gandalf jumps up and rescues Faramir and somewhere in the scene Gandalf clubs Denethor with his staff. Denethor runs to the pier point of the seventh floor and jumps off in flames.
Both aren't bad in my opinion, except that Gandalf is kinder toward Denethor in the book which I prefer. I don't think PJ had to have him club Denethor.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jan 7, 2024 14:59:20 GMT -6
Okay! Correction regarding the dead and Aragorn releasing them!
That did not happen on the Pellenor Fields in the book as the movie showed, it happened when they waylaid the approaching Corsair ships BEFORE they reach Minas Tirith.
Legolas and Gimli meet Merry and Pippin in the Houses of Healing and Legolas (mostly) tells what happened to the Haradrim and Corsairs of Umbar with the host of the dead. They swept all the ships and foes on land after Aragorn called them forth. After the defeat, Aragorn says their oath was fulfilled and to be at rest. There were 50 great ships and a smattering of smaller vessels in their fleet so they did a very good job of fulfilling their oath!
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jan 12, 2024 21:00:29 GMT -6
I'm trying to remember, in the movie, if the funeral in which Eowyn sang was for Theoden's son, Theodred, or later for Theoden. I want to say it was for Theodred. In the movie, I don't remember everyone riding back to Edoras with Theodon's body and having a funeral as they do in the book.
The book mentions Theodred's death but nothing is done about it other than bringing him back to Edoras. They are rushed into battle at Helm's Deep. But the movie gives them time to do it.
I loved reading about the Hobbits return and all the stops along the way with Ganadlf, Elrond, Galadriel, etc. Theoden's funeral, Faramir & Eowyn's betrothal pledge, Treebeard and improvements at Isengard, meeting Saruman and Grima on the road, dropping off Galadriel and group, Legolas and Gimli going their way seeing the Glittering Caves and Fangorn forest, going to Rivendell to relax for awhile and see Bilbo, then heading to Bree and talking to Barliman.
And I loved the return to The Shire and it's scouring. Having the game helped me picture everything in place more clearly although distances are shorter in game. Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin were so well prepared to handle Sharkey and his ruffians. It was great reading it again.
I even cheered Lobilia for standing up to the ruffians and being thrown in jail. She gave Bag End back to Frodo and then when she died she left her money to care for all the Hobbits that had hardships and losses from the battle.
And the rebuild of Bagshot Row and removing the man buildings that were built for the ruffians. And Sam planting saplings all over and putting a small piece of the dirt at each root. And of course the Mallorn tree seed which grew up beautifully. All plants sped up growing because of Galadriel's dirt.
Having Saruman and Grima sent away by Frodo but dying anyway, Grima stabbing Saruman, and Grima running and shot by Hobbit archers. Saruman shriveled up and vanished just like the Witch King!
Oh! And Gandalf went to go talk to Tom Bombadil which is why he didn't go with the Hobbits back to the Shire. I'd have loved to have read about that meeting and discussion!
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jan 12, 2024 21:05:42 GMT -6
And reading Frodo and Sam's movements thru Mordor to Mt. Doom, Gollum's attack, Frodo claiming the Ring, Gollum biting his finger and getting the Ring and falling into Mt. Doom and being rescued by Eagles was good in both the book and movie. Exactly the same.
But in the book Frodo woke up in a bed in a tent on the Field of Cormallon like LOTRO did. The movie he woke in the Houses of Healing or a private room in MT.
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Jan 12, 2024 21:32:08 GMT -6
Going back a bit to pick up more on Merry and Pippin's relationship.
RE Stormy's: "Anyway, I like the movie when Gandalf takes Pippin off on Shadowfax after Pippin looks at the Pallantir. You feel that they will miss each other a lot. The book doesn't share their view on their separation..."
Further on, in ROTK, after Pippin has been carried away by Gandalf, and Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas are preparing to take "The Paths of the Dead," Merry will be left alone to ride with the Rohirrim to Meduseld. At this point JRRT takes the time to reveal just how much Merry misses Pippin: "More than ever he (Merry) missed the unquenchable cheerfulness of Pippin." (ROTK p. 762)
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Jan 12, 2024 21:46:00 GMT -6
Yes, the roles in the battle to save Minas Tirirth played by the Oathbreaker, ghost horde, are quite different between book and movie versions. While the Ghost Host had a crucial role in defeating the fleet of Umbar, and freeing the Gondoran galley slaves, they do not take part in the final battle at Minas Tirith itself. PJ shows The Dead actually entering the city to wipe out Sauron's forces which, only in the movie, had entered the lower levels of the city. So PJ greatly magnified the importance of the Dead. In the book, once Gandalf halts the Chief Nazgul at the outer gate, no foe ever enters MT.
|
|
|
Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Jan 14, 2024 14:00:11 GMT -6
I think PJ dropped the entire Bombadil/ Barrows Down sequence, and the magical nature of the ancient swords. He probably considered this episode to be too close to a musical, what with the hobbits, Tom, and Goldberry all running about singing instead of soberly speaking their lines. As I recall the movie, Strider has a large pack from which he takes five short swords and distributes them to the hobbits before they get to Weathertop -- hence the sword Merry uses against the Nazgul is just a regular, unenchanted blade.... Regarding Merry's sword in the movie - My head-canon is that the pack of swords that Aragorn distributes to the hobbits was acquired in the Barrow-downs. Aragorn traveled all over and we know that he spent time in Bree-land since that's where the hobbits meet him and he was a regular at the Prancing Pony. So maybe he picked up some enchanted daggers in the Barrow-downs as defense against the supernatural. There's nothing in the movie to support this but it's my way of bringing the films closer to the book in this aspect.
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jan 15, 2024 12:03:36 GMT -6
Yeah, but Andy's pictures of those swords don't show all the fancy stuff the book swords had. But I guess we can imagine what you believe as comfort thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by Andorinha on Jan 16, 2024 19:38:12 GMT -6
I think PJ simply did not read the Bombadil sequences very well, and either did not know that Merry's sword had special anti-nazgul powers, or just figured that the general public would not remember or care about so subtle a matter as the origins/ properties of Merry's barrows blade. PJ was simply interested in moving the show along, and in not introducing the disturbing/ confusing philosophies of Tom Bombadil, who, in Tolkien's mind, in some ways, stood above and aloof from the politics of Middle-earth. “What does Old Man Willow contribute to the story of Frodo carrying the Ring? What does Tom Bombadil ultimately really have to do with the Ring? I know there’s Ring Stuff in the Bombadil episode, but it’s not really advancing our story” (Peter Jackson statement) I think Freddie is right to suggest some sort of cover story should have been employed to emphasize the magical nature of the swords. When Jackson jettisoned the entire Bombadil episode, he unfortunately forgot/ ignored the significance of the magic that the barrows-blades contained. He should have remedied this with just a few words by Aragorn to the hobbits in Bree or just outside of Bree to the effect that he (Aragorn) had brought along some ancient/ magical swords of Arnorian manufacture to give them.. see screenrant.com/lord-rings-movies-cut-tom-bombadil-tolkien-right/
|
|
|
Post by Stormrider on Jan 17, 2024 19:26:05 GMT -6
Right, PJ should have made a comment about the importance of the swords' Nazgul fighting abilities somewhere in his movies! It would have been even nicer if he had crafted them to look like the barrow blades.
Even Merry's part in the ROTK movie during his and Eowyn's battle with the Witch King is diminished as I mentioned further up in this thread. Although I loved that Eowyn got a great scene out of it.
|
|