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Post by Sparrow on Jul 25, 2004 12:42:28 GMT -6
As Bilbo approaches the exit to the cave, close to escape from the goblins, secure in his cloak of invisibility, the Ring suddenly slips off his finger! As the goblins rush upon Bilbo, he sticks his hands in his pockets, and the Ring slips back on his finger! What is going on here? Is the Ring toying with Bilbo? Playing games with the goblins? or is it trying to teach Bilbo something?
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Post by Desi Baggins on Jul 28, 2004 13:13:58 GMT -6
I never really gave this much thought, but now that you bring it up....I think maybe the Ring was hoping to be found by a Goblin. I think the Goblins might have been more easily controled by Sauron and the Ring is trying to get back to it's Master.
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Post by Stormrider on Aug 18, 2004 6:01:11 GMT -6
In the FOTR Movie, I noticed that the Ring shrunk down to human size for Isildur after he cut it from Sauron's hand. Perhaps the Ring had not finished adjusting to his new master's finger size yet! lol!
Seriously...The Ring, like its master, was forged on deception and evil. It seems to have a will of its own and has a tendency to play tricks on any master who is not Sauron!
Like Desi said, perhaps it was aware of the goblins in the area and thought that falling into their hands might bring it nearer to its real Master than going along with a hobbit!
And then again its slipping on an off could be teaching Bilbo to pay more attention to it and not take it for granted. I think Sauron took it for granted! He believed in its ultimate power and that he would be undefeatable with it--never thinking for a moment that someone might cut it from his hand!
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Post by Stormrider on Aug 8, 2012 18:38:31 GMT -6
It seems there are two forces working here trying to get a grip on who the next owner of the ring will be.
The Evil force is trying to get the ring back to a goblin so a Nazgul can come along and return it to Sauron who created it.
The Good force caused the ring to unknowing fall off Gollum's finger so that Bilbo could unwittingly come across it on the ground in the tunnel. Then although it slips off at the door out of the mountain, Bilbo's hand finds it again.
I would say the Good forces are in more control than the Evil forces in this chapter.
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Post by Andorinha on Aug 9, 2012 20:19:33 GMT -6
Was the ring trying to get back to Sauron? Originally this ring was just a "common" magical ring, apparently with no connection to the powers of Evil, so, of course, it could not be trying to attract the goblins so as to be returned to The Dark Lord. But this situation holds true only between 1937 and the first revision in 1951, when Tolkien had large parts of LOTR written but not yet ready for publication. So, after 1951, we could be dealing with The Ring, Sauron's lost Ring, and in the final 1966 revisions, I think we can be pretty sure that Bilbo's ring, is The One Ring, and that it may indeed have been exerting an unhealthy influence on Bilbo's personality, and it may well have been trying to attract the Goblins...
In the 1937 version (annotated Hobbit, p 131) Bilbo is never tempted to kill Gollum, so the moment of personal crisis we see in the 1966 version does not occur. There is no need for Bilbo's heart to be turned by pity. Bilbo simply thanks Gollum for showing him the correct tunnel to the "back door," they say goodbye and part on "friendly" terms -- and there is no anguish to Gollum in the ring's loss.
I suppose we have a less honest hobbit in the older 1937 version, he takes the ring as a "finders keepers" sort of thing -- a moral flaw. In the 1966 version, we might be more willing to forgive Bilbo keeping Gollum's ring, as this one is The Ring, which has an unholy influence on its bearers from the start, making them covet the thing as a precious item. So, Bilbo's failure to return the ring to Gollum, in the second version, is not Bilbo's fault, it is the Ring's overpowering will. But, back in 1937, Bilbo, in keeping Gollum's ring, has willingly become a thief, a genuine lapse of middle-class hobbit character!
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Post by Stormrider on Aug 10, 2012 7:23:38 GMT -6
Yes, in the 1937 vesion, Gollum and Bilbo did part on friendlier terms than the revised LOTR merged version. Bilbo taking the ring in the 1937 version does make Bilbo a "thief" and we could look at it as practice for his future burgling job. It is a jab in my own heart to think that Bilbo was a "real" thief in this version. He could have mentioned to Gollum that he had found the ring while he was crawling around in the dark. Then Gollum would have said that the game was over and both had lived up to their bargains. Bilbo would have remained in the foot of the mountain in the dark still trying to fumble around. Unless . . . Gollum had gotten so pi**ed off at Bilbo for having the ring already so he couldn't have given it as his present and then chased him up the tunnel passages as in the later revised LOTR merged version.
So if in the earlier version, did the ring slip off Bilbo's finger when he was trying to get past the goblins in the door? Not exactly! Annotated Hobbit's side column says this:
Before this passage it just says that Bilbo was going through the tunnels and saw a glimmer of light and then bagan to run until he turned a corner and the light was so dazzling bright but he saw a stone door left slightly open. It did not say he had the ring on at this point after saying Good-Bye to Gollum (it seems that he did not put it back on) nor that it slipped off his finger.
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Post by Andorinha on Aug 10, 2012 9:56:28 GMT -6
Good research, Stormrider!
The difference between the 1937 and 1951 versions is here quite revealing; the earlier ring is just a ring -- but the later Ring has a definite personality, and the ability to interact with its environment.
1937: "Whether it was accident or presence of mind, I don't know. Accident, I think, because the hobbit was not used yet to his new treasure. Anyway he slipped the ring on his left hand -- and the goblins stopped short. They could not see a sign of him. Then they yelled twice as loud as before, but not so delightedly." (D.A. Anderson, The Annotated Hobbit, p. 134)
1951 "Whether it was an accident, or a last trick of the ring before it took a new master, it was not on his finger. With yells of delight the goblins rushed upon him." (D.A. Anderson, The Annotated Hobbit, p. 135, emphasis mine)
In the 1937 version the ring is, by the narrator's guess, accidentally removed from Bilbo's finger; but in 1951, while the possibility of "accidental removal" is not ruled out, now the ring seemingly has a mind of its own -- It is capable of "playing tricks," and It can deliberately remove itself from Bilbo's finger.
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Post by Stormrider on Aug 10, 2012 16:20:32 GMT -6
Whether it is The One Ring or just a magic ring, it is still magic! It still makes Bilbo invisible when he wears it. In the 1937 version, the magic ring may have been a bit too large for Bilbo if it had any last trick to play on him. But I did not see that Bilbo even had the ring on when he approached the slightly open door. He had put it on for a moment when he followed behind Gollum and Gollum wondered where Bilbo was thinking he was right behind him. Bilbo quickly slipped it off and said I'm right here or something like that. Bilbo only put it on quickly to see if what Gollum had said about invisibility was true -- he didn't want to reveal to Gollum that he was a thief. And therefore, after they parted Bilbo still had not put the ring back on until the goblins actually saw him.
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