Post by Andorinha on Jan 15, 2009 12:08:27 GMT -6
Beowulf ARCHIVE: Anglo-Saxon Women
________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:14 PM
From: CathyL Sent: 11/4/2002 2:09 AM
I'm getting more interested in swords since Beowulf has a strange time with them, can't kill the dragon or Grendel's mother with his own.
The warrior ethic seems closely tied to maintaining order (as opposed to the rule of chaos) in Beowulf. Wergild will settle blood debts, as Hrothgar had bailed out Ecgtheow, Beowulf's father, for killing Heregar. This keeps the violence from eternally escalating. Warriors (as shown in the first Beowulf/Unferth exchange) are supposed to be adept speakers as well as fighters. The war gear that Beowulf and his group wore was enough to impress the coast lookout and get them in to see Hrothgar. And their bearing was quite proud (like Boromir's), very self-confident.
Relationships are clearly demarcated. Lineage from father is often stated. Queens get their identity from their royal lineage and marriage. I don't know how other females get an identity. It's very interesting to me that Grendel's mother has no name. And when Beowulf falls, a "solitary Geatish woman," unnamed, relates the troubles that will ensue in the absence of a king.
The role of the king is extremely important. Heremond's tale is told in the mead hall to illustrate the problems a bad king can cause. By giving treasure to his men, he maintains a retinue that will remain faithful in times of trouble.
Beowulf faces Grendel without his sword since Grendel will have none. And self-challenges work to produce respect, such as the one between Beowulf and Breca.
The politeness of the queen in serving the ale to the men in order of rank speaks well for a court. I think that comes up more than once.
Enough for now.
Cheers,
Cathy
________________________________________
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Message 2 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:16 PM
From: Zauber Sent: 11/4/2002 11:18 AM
CathyL, You bring up a good point -- the status of women in this time period is pretty sorry. If you weren't related to royalty, you were nameless. As I read Beowulf, I kept hoping at some point Grendel's mom would turn out to have a name. But alas!
Does weregild remind you of any contemporary practice?
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:17 PM
From: Slade Sent: 11/4/2002 4:50 PM
I have to strongly object to the 'low' status of women in A-S times being. Women enjoyed a better position in A-S times than they did for probably 700 or 800 years after (post-Norman invasion). Women in A-S times could hold property and dispose of that property in their wills as they saw fit - something they could not do post-Norman times until sometime after the renaissance period (Shakespearean) at least.
Usually, women weren't warriors of course - but Wealhtheow's presence in the mead-hall speaks to the important position at least of noblewomen in early A-S 'courts'. However, in fact, Lady AEthelflaed organised the war against the Danes with her husband, King Edward, in the early 10th century. And when he died in 911, she took up control of the country and in fact commanded the army.
In fact, in early Germanic culture, women enjoyed a relatively high and revered status - Tacitus comments that the Germans held their women in high esteem, attributing to them wisdom not present in men and always consulting them before important decisions like war, &c. This continued in A-S England even into the Christian period, with abbottesses taking the place of 'wise-women'.
And in the poem itself, later on we shall see Wealtheow becomes a rather prominent character, the poet portraying her as perhaps stronger and more level-headed than Hrothgar. And the saga of Finnsburh in Beowulf is told from Hildeburh's point of view, or rather how it relates to her.
And though lineage seems to be generally traced through the father, there is evidence for a residual matrilinear culture - for the language preserves an importance of _maternal_ uncles (eam), suggesting at some point in time property passed through the female side? In any case, though we never know the name of Beowulf's mother, it is through his mother that he is connected with the royal Geatish house - Hygelac is his maternal uncle.
anyway - felt I needed to defend the position of anglo-saxon women
cheers,
B.
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:18 PM
From: CathyL Sent: 11/4/2002 9:08 PM
Ben
You made my day with your last post. There are unwanted gaps in my knowledge of women's history and you've just given me a good topic to pursue. I printed your reply and it's on the wall in my study. I'm getting a lot more out of this study than I would have dreamed. Thank you again for your translation and your responses. I'm thinking about 'armageddon', that's a tough one. I'm getting some interesting insight into a translator's dilemmas. If "poetry is what is lost in translation" and one is translating a poem....
Cheers
Cathy
____________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:19 PM
From: Thorkel Sent: 11/5/2002 1:16 PM
Regarding the status of women as seen in Beowulf:
I would have to agree with Zauber that from a cursory read of "Beowulf" there is a Tolkinesque sparseness in the treatment accorded females, and I hope, in a deeper, more attentive, subsequent reading to find what may be present in this epic that casts some light upon the roles and statuses of women.
This may have to be broken out as a separate topic of debate/ discussion with an appended list of bibliographic sources! Shocked and dismayed at my ignorance here concerning female status among Germanic tribal peoples of the "sub-Roman" period, I dashed to the comforting bulk of James Campbell's "Anglo-Saxons," -- gasp, no index entry at all for "women." Turning to E.A. Thompson's "The Early Germans," gave me but a brief mention in a footnote that women MAY have accompanied Germanic war bands in some sort of support role...; off to K.R. Dark, "Civitas to Kingdom," eeck! the same lack of readily accessed, indexed material on Women's history... ; Tacitus, Caesar, Ammianus, Gildas, Orosius, Procopius, Nennius? DOOMED!!! If there were no substantive passages indexed in these sources for "Women," surely the secondary commentaries on "Beowulf" would feature articles devoted to the roles/ statuses of females in this poem (at least a "proper" name for Grendle's Ma)? Alas! There seemed to be no mention at all of "Women" as a distinct topic of study in the apparatuses appended to L. E. Nicholson, E. T. Donaldson, N. Howe, S. Heaney, or H.D. Chickering! Perhaps the seeming lack of interest in most matters pertaining to females (characteristic of the 19th - 20th century male dominated fields of history and archaeology?) disguises a mass of data left un-indexed in the body of such texts? Will I now be forced to actually read every line on every page to pull (by and for myself) from this great sea of verbiage all the pertinent "distaff" statements buried therein?! Finally -- perhaps saved! -- in "Approaches to Teaching Beowulf," ed. J.B. Bessinger and R. F. Yeager: 7 pages - "Women in Beowulf," by A. H. Olsen!
"As may be exemplified by the introduction to E. Talbot Donaldson's translation, traditional interpretations and pedagogical approaches have stressed that Beowulf is a heroic poem, focusing on a male hero as he matures... The women of the poem have been considered largely irrelevant to the main action thereof, and, consequently, students interested in studying the roles of women in literature believe that Beowulf is not worth studying." (Approaches to Teaching Beowulf, 1984: p. 150)
I have not yet completed my reading of this article, but I assume Olsen feels there is indeed a certain wealth of data to be mined from the Beowulf itself that illuminates the "female" aspect of early Germanic society --I'll try to get a synopsis of her statements typed up soon, and then see if it helps me pick out the importances of women in Beowulf as I give the epic a closer, "more informed" second read. Then, of course any such gleanings need subsequently to be compared with the ways that Tolkien treats of females in his own "fictional" Middle-earth works...
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 6 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:20 PM
From: Slade Sent: 11/5/2002 2:38 PM
Yes, the disregard of women has more to do with (predominantly 19th-c.) male criticism than the poem itself, I feel.
One good book for those interested, a short 55-page affair, written with the non-scholar in mind as well, is:
Herbert, Kathleen. Peace-Weavers & Shield-Maidens: women in early English society. Hockwold-cum-Wilton (Norfolk, England): Anglo-Saxon Books, 1997.
best bet for ordering is either Oxbow Books or directly through Anglo-Saxon books (both UK) or, in North America, through David Brown books. Not sure if Amazon carries it.
Another relevant book is:
Damico, Helen. Beowulf's Wealhtheow and the Valkyrie Tradition. Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 1984.
Alexandra Olsen's (who Thorkel mentions) work is also good. Gillian Overing, however, I feel to be of the 'bitter feminist' school, and thus has a negative view of women's status in A-S England.
Happy Guy Fawkes Day all! (& Happy Diwali),
B.
www.heorot.dk
________________________________________
Reply
Message 7 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:22 PM
From: Thorkel Sent: 11/5/2002 3:17 PM
Excellent, Slade! I'm off to count silver pennies and see if I can make the purchase now! And thanks for the reminder -- Guy's Day -- legalized shenanigans involving the detonation of mass quantities of raw gunpowder! Almost as much fun as a football riot!
A few internet sources I've run across today may also be of help.
www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/5/porter1.html
users.andara.com/~micah/school/beowulfrelevance.html
________________________________________
Reply
Message 8 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:25 PM
From: Zauber Sent: 11/6/2002 10:52 AM
My comments were based upon how women are portrayed in Beowulf, so it is nice to read about Anglo-Saxon women in a more historical context. I still think they aren't well represented in the tale of Beowulf, and am wondering how much this may be due to being recorded after years of being told, and if a more "Christian" attitude was taken towards the women. (That may be a rhetorical wondering). By well represented, I might clarify that although there are a number of women in the story, they are mainly defined by their roles: wives, mothers, daughters, and their weddings!
I found it interesting that in early Germanic culture the men consulted the women "before important decisions like war". Some Native American tribes practiced the same wisdom.
I have asked a manager to move this subject into its own thread, as Thorkel mentioned, since it looks like this will be a juicy topic.
Thanks for all the references!
Zauber
___________________________________________
Reply
Message 9 of 12 in Discussion
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:26 PM
This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager.
_______________________________________
Reply
Message 10 of 12 in Discussion
From: CathyL
Sent: 11/7/2002 10:46 AM
Amazon has Peace Weavers and Shield Maidens for a mere $10, so a copy is winging its way to Houston. I'll post whatever is of interest. The other book, Beowulf's Wealheowth, is also available for $132. It, however, is winging its way nowhere. Great thread everybody.
Cathy
________________________________________________
Reply
Message 11 of 12 in Discussion
From: Slade
Sent: 11/9/2002 11:06 PM
another good book, which I just picked up, is a volume of essays on Women in Anglo-Saxon England (and a bit cheaper than the Damico book, and it has a chapter on 'the valkyrie tradition' by Damico in it too):
New Readings on Women in Old English Literature. Helen Damico & Alexandra Hennessey Olsen, eds. Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1990.
___________________________________________
Reply
Message 12 of 12 in Discussion
From: Slade
Sent: 11/20/2002 1:27 AM
[copied over from the 1065-1384 thread]
One of the interesting aspects of this section [1065-1384] (which, between Wealhtheow, Grendles modor, & Hildeburh, has a fairly strong 'female focus') is the use of the term ides to describe Grendel's mother (l.1261, ides aglæcwif, "lady monster-woman"; l.1353 idese onlicnæs, "in the likewise of an ides). In _Beowulf_, ides is also applied to Wealhtheow (l.619 ides helminga, "lady of the Helmings", l.1170 ides scyldinga 'lady of the Scyldings') and Hildeburh (l.1074 geomuru ides, "mournful lady", l.1116 ides gnordode, 'the lady lamented'), and also later in reference to Thryth/Modthryth/Hygd (l.1943b-44, ne bið swylc cwenlic þeaw idese to efnanne þeah ðe hio ænlicu sy, "such queenly custom is not for an ides to perform, though she be matchless"). Outside of Beowulf, ides occurs mainly (only??) in poetry, and always in a complimentary and respectful sense, often bordering on awe, used to refer to Eve in Genesis, Sarah & her Egyptian handmaiden Hagar, amongst others. It seems to be used to refer to noble women and women who possess some sort of magical powers (suggesting that noble woman possess some magic?). Outside of Old English, the cognate Old Saxon idis and Old High German itis are applied to Mary (mother of Christ), and idisi is used to refer to the spell-casting women of the Old High German 'First Merseburg Charm'. In Old Norse, the word appears as dís (pl. dísir), which Damico suggest are a 'valkyrie-reflex' (the Norse goddess Freyja is called Vana-dís, "ides/dís/goddess of the Vanir"). Damico goes on to suggest that Grendel's mother, as an ides, may represent the more terrifying side of the valkyrie-female, as may Thryth/Modthryth/Hygd (see above) in a less 'monstrous' way. [the collection of essays in New Readings on Women in Old English Literature is quite good, and would be of interest to anyone curious about the status of women in Anglo-Saxon England, and is not expensive - some used copies may be found here: dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch?ph=2&tn=women+old+english&sortby=2 . The more I read, the more I think that in fact Anglo-Saxon women had a better social position (even?) than women in present-day Western cultures]
One of the criticisms of Tolkien's Beowulf essay has been that he saw Grendel's mother simply as an extension of Grendel and not particularly interesting in her own right (in accordance with his 'bipartide' analysis of the poem, e.g. rise & fall, youth & age, Grendel & dragon, &c.).
________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:14 PM
From: CathyL Sent: 11/4/2002 2:09 AM
I'm getting more interested in swords since Beowulf has a strange time with them, can't kill the dragon or Grendel's mother with his own.
The warrior ethic seems closely tied to maintaining order (as opposed to the rule of chaos) in Beowulf. Wergild will settle blood debts, as Hrothgar had bailed out Ecgtheow, Beowulf's father, for killing Heregar. This keeps the violence from eternally escalating. Warriors (as shown in the first Beowulf/Unferth exchange) are supposed to be adept speakers as well as fighters. The war gear that Beowulf and his group wore was enough to impress the coast lookout and get them in to see Hrothgar. And their bearing was quite proud (like Boromir's), very self-confident.
Relationships are clearly demarcated. Lineage from father is often stated. Queens get their identity from their royal lineage and marriage. I don't know how other females get an identity. It's very interesting to me that Grendel's mother has no name. And when Beowulf falls, a "solitary Geatish woman," unnamed, relates the troubles that will ensue in the absence of a king.
The role of the king is extremely important. Heremond's tale is told in the mead hall to illustrate the problems a bad king can cause. By giving treasure to his men, he maintains a retinue that will remain faithful in times of trouble.
Beowulf faces Grendel without his sword since Grendel will have none. And self-challenges work to produce respect, such as the one between Beowulf and Breca.
The politeness of the queen in serving the ale to the men in order of rank speaks well for a court. I think that comes up more than once.
Enough for now.
Cheers,
Cathy
________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:16 PM
From: Zauber Sent: 11/4/2002 11:18 AM
CathyL, You bring up a good point -- the status of women in this time period is pretty sorry. If you weren't related to royalty, you were nameless. As I read Beowulf, I kept hoping at some point Grendel's mom would turn out to have a name. But alas!
Does weregild remind you of any contemporary practice?
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:17 PM
From: Slade Sent: 11/4/2002 4:50 PM
I have to strongly object to the 'low' status of women in A-S times being. Women enjoyed a better position in A-S times than they did for probably 700 or 800 years after (post-Norman invasion). Women in A-S times could hold property and dispose of that property in their wills as they saw fit - something they could not do post-Norman times until sometime after the renaissance period (Shakespearean) at least.
Usually, women weren't warriors of course - but Wealhtheow's presence in the mead-hall speaks to the important position at least of noblewomen in early A-S 'courts'. However, in fact, Lady AEthelflaed organised the war against the Danes with her husband, King Edward, in the early 10th century. And when he died in 911, she took up control of the country and in fact commanded the army.
In fact, in early Germanic culture, women enjoyed a relatively high and revered status - Tacitus comments that the Germans held their women in high esteem, attributing to them wisdom not present in men and always consulting them before important decisions like war, &c. This continued in A-S England even into the Christian period, with abbottesses taking the place of 'wise-women'.
And in the poem itself, later on we shall see Wealtheow becomes a rather prominent character, the poet portraying her as perhaps stronger and more level-headed than Hrothgar. And the saga of Finnsburh in Beowulf is told from Hildeburh's point of view, or rather how it relates to her.
And though lineage seems to be generally traced through the father, there is evidence for a residual matrilinear culture - for the language preserves an importance of _maternal_ uncles (eam), suggesting at some point in time property passed through the female side? In any case, though we never know the name of Beowulf's mother, it is through his mother that he is connected with the royal Geatish house - Hygelac is his maternal uncle.
anyway - felt I needed to defend the position of anglo-saxon women
cheers,
B.
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:18 PM
From: CathyL Sent: 11/4/2002 9:08 PM
Ben
You made my day with your last post. There are unwanted gaps in my knowledge of women's history and you've just given me a good topic to pursue. I printed your reply and it's on the wall in my study. I'm getting a lot more out of this study than I would have dreamed. Thank you again for your translation and your responses. I'm thinking about 'armageddon', that's a tough one. I'm getting some interesting insight into a translator's dilemmas. If "poetry is what is lost in translation" and one is translating a poem....
Cheers
Cathy
____________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:19 PM
From: Thorkel Sent: 11/5/2002 1:16 PM
Regarding the status of women as seen in Beowulf:
I would have to agree with Zauber that from a cursory read of "Beowulf" there is a Tolkinesque sparseness in the treatment accorded females, and I hope, in a deeper, more attentive, subsequent reading to find what may be present in this epic that casts some light upon the roles and statuses of women.
This may have to be broken out as a separate topic of debate/ discussion with an appended list of bibliographic sources! Shocked and dismayed at my ignorance here concerning female status among Germanic tribal peoples of the "sub-Roman" period, I dashed to the comforting bulk of James Campbell's "Anglo-Saxons," -- gasp, no index entry at all for "women." Turning to E.A. Thompson's "The Early Germans," gave me but a brief mention in a footnote that women MAY have accompanied Germanic war bands in some sort of support role...; off to K.R. Dark, "Civitas to Kingdom," eeck! the same lack of readily accessed, indexed material on Women's history... ; Tacitus, Caesar, Ammianus, Gildas, Orosius, Procopius, Nennius? DOOMED!!! If there were no substantive passages indexed in these sources for "Women," surely the secondary commentaries on "Beowulf" would feature articles devoted to the roles/ statuses of females in this poem (at least a "proper" name for Grendle's Ma)? Alas! There seemed to be no mention at all of "Women" as a distinct topic of study in the apparatuses appended to L. E. Nicholson, E. T. Donaldson, N. Howe, S. Heaney, or H.D. Chickering! Perhaps the seeming lack of interest in most matters pertaining to females (characteristic of the 19th - 20th century male dominated fields of history and archaeology?) disguises a mass of data left un-indexed in the body of such texts? Will I now be forced to actually read every line on every page to pull (by and for myself) from this great sea of verbiage all the pertinent "distaff" statements buried therein?! Finally -- perhaps saved! -- in "Approaches to Teaching Beowulf," ed. J.B. Bessinger and R. F. Yeager: 7 pages - "Women in Beowulf," by A. H. Olsen!
"As may be exemplified by the introduction to E. Talbot Donaldson's translation, traditional interpretations and pedagogical approaches have stressed that Beowulf is a heroic poem, focusing on a male hero as he matures... The women of the poem have been considered largely irrelevant to the main action thereof, and, consequently, students interested in studying the roles of women in literature believe that Beowulf is not worth studying." (Approaches to Teaching Beowulf, 1984: p. 150)
I have not yet completed my reading of this article, but I assume Olsen feels there is indeed a certain wealth of data to be mined from the Beowulf itself that illuminates the "female" aspect of early Germanic society --I'll try to get a synopsis of her statements typed up soon, and then see if it helps me pick out the importances of women in Beowulf as I give the epic a closer, "more informed" second read. Then, of course any such gleanings need subsequently to be compared with the ways that Tolkien treats of females in his own "fictional" Middle-earth works...
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 6 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:20 PM
From: Slade Sent: 11/5/2002 2:38 PM
Yes, the disregard of women has more to do with (predominantly 19th-c.) male criticism than the poem itself, I feel.
One good book for those interested, a short 55-page affair, written with the non-scholar in mind as well, is:
Herbert, Kathleen. Peace-Weavers & Shield-Maidens: women in early English society. Hockwold-cum-Wilton (Norfolk, England): Anglo-Saxon Books, 1997.
best bet for ordering is either Oxbow Books or directly through Anglo-Saxon books (both UK) or, in North America, through David Brown books. Not sure if Amazon carries it.
Another relevant book is:
Damico, Helen. Beowulf's Wealhtheow and the Valkyrie Tradition. Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 1984.
Alexandra Olsen's (who Thorkel mentions) work is also good. Gillian Overing, however, I feel to be of the 'bitter feminist' school, and thus has a negative view of women's status in A-S England.
Happy Guy Fawkes Day all! (& Happy Diwali),
B.
www.heorot.dk
________________________________________
Reply
Message 7 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:22 PM
From: Thorkel Sent: 11/5/2002 3:17 PM
Excellent, Slade! I'm off to count silver pennies and see if I can make the purchase now! And thanks for the reminder -- Guy's Day -- legalized shenanigans involving the detonation of mass quantities of raw gunpowder! Almost as much fun as a football riot!
A few internet sources I've run across today may also be of help.
www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/5/porter1.html
users.andara.com/~micah/school/beowulfrelevance.html
________________________________________
Reply
Message 8 of 12 in Discussion
From: Storrmrider
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:25 PM
From: Zauber Sent: 11/6/2002 10:52 AM
My comments were based upon how women are portrayed in Beowulf, so it is nice to read about Anglo-Saxon women in a more historical context. I still think they aren't well represented in the tale of Beowulf, and am wondering how much this may be due to being recorded after years of being told, and if a more "Christian" attitude was taken towards the women. (That may be a rhetorical wondering). By well represented, I might clarify that although there are a number of women in the story, they are mainly defined by their roles: wives, mothers, daughters, and their weddings!
I found it interesting that in early Germanic culture the men consulted the women "before important decisions like war". Some Native American tribes practiced the same wisdom.
I have asked a manager to move this subject into its own thread, as Thorkel mentioned, since it looks like this will be a juicy topic.
Thanks for all the references!
Zauber
___________________________________________
Reply
Message 9 of 12 in Discussion
Sent: 11/6/2002 3:26 PM
This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager.
_______________________________________
Reply
Message 10 of 12 in Discussion
From: CathyL
Sent: 11/7/2002 10:46 AM
Amazon has Peace Weavers and Shield Maidens for a mere $10, so a copy is winging its way to Houston. I'll post whatever is of interest. The other book, Beowulf's Wealheowth, is also available for $132. It, however, is winging its way nowhere. Great thread everybody.
Cathy
________________________________________________
Reply
Message 11 of 12 in Discussion
From: Slade
Sent: 11/9/2002 11:06 PM
another good book, which I just picked up, is a volume of essays on Women in Anglo-Saxon England (and a bit cheaper than the Damico book, and it has a chapter on 'the valkyrie tradition' by Damico in it too):
New Readings on Women in Old English Literature. Helen Damico & Alexandra Hennessey Olsen, eds. Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1990.
___________________________________________
Reply
Message 12 of 12 in Discussion
From: Slade
Sent: 11/20/2002 1:27 AM
[copied over from the 1065-1384 thread]
One of the interesting aspects of this section [1065-1384] (which, between Wealhtheow, Grendles modor, & Hildeburh, has a fairly strong 'female focus') is the use of the term ides to describe Grendel's mother (l.1261, ides aglæcwif, "lady monster-woman"; l.1353 idese onlicnæs, "in the likewise of an ides). In _Beowulf_, ides is also applied to Wealhtheow (l.619 ides helminga, "lady of the Helmings", l.1170 ides scyldinga 'lady of the Scyldings') and Hildeburh (l.1074 geomuru ides, "mournful lady", l.1116 ides gnordode, 'the lady lamented'), and also later in reference to Thryth/Modthryth/Hygd (l.1943b-44, ne bið swylc cwenlic þeaw idese to efnanne þeah ðe hio ænlicu sy, "such queenly custom is not for an ides to perform, though she be matchless"). Outside of Beowulf, ides occurs mainly (only??) in poetry, and always in a complimentary and respectful sense, often bordering on awe, used to refer to Eve in Genesis, Sarah & her Egyptian handmaiden Hagar, amongst others. It seems to be used to refer to noble women and women who possess some sort of magical powers (suggesting that noble woman possess some magic?). Outside of Old English, the cognate Old Saxon idis and Old High German itis are applied to Mary (mother of Christ), and idisi is used to refer to the spell-casting women of the Old High German 'First Merseburg Charm'. In Old Norse, the word appears as dís (pl. dísir), which Damico suggest are a 'valkyrie-reflex' (the Norse goddess Freyja is called Vana-dís, "ides/dís/goddess of the Vanir"). Damico goes on to suggest that Grendel's mother, as an ides, may represent the more terrifying side of the valkyrie-female, as may Thryth/Modthryth/Hygd (see above) in a less 'monstrous' way. [the collection of essays in New Readings on Women in Old English Literature is quite good, and would be of interest to anyone curious about the status of women in Anglo-Saxon England, and is not expensive - some used copies may be found here: dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch?ph=2&tn=women+old+english&sortby=2 . The more I read, the more I think that in fact Anglo-Saxon women had a better social position (even?) than women in present-day Western cultures]
One of the criticisms of Tolkien's Beowulf essay has been that he saw Grendel's mother simply as an extension of Grendel and not particularly interesting in her own right (in accordance with his 'bipartide' analysis of the poem, e.g. rise & fall, youth & age, Grendel & dragon, &c.).