Post by Andorinha on Jan 16, 2009 23:41:43 GMT -6
The Sil ARCHIVE: Week One reading - Ainulindale & Valequenta
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Message 1 of 8 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/11/2002 9:32 PM
This is not a discussion thread! Please wait to start discussion until Sunday.
Soliel expressed confusion over the reading, and as I think about it I realize that the beginning of Sil can be bewildering. If it helps, I have summarized the Ainulindale here. I would suggest not reading it until after you have read the chapter.
The Ainulindale:
This is Tolkien's creation story. It begins before the beginning of time, before anything yet "is." Iluvatar (also known as Eru) is the only self-existent being. Everything else comes from him. First made were the Ainur. Think of them as angel-type beings. Iluvatar shares with each a different part of his thoughts. Then he encourages them to make music.
Iluvatar gives them musical "themes." A "theme" in music is a line of melody, which is repeated through a piece of music, with variety and changes but always recognizable. Think of any piece of classical music you know - after you listen to it, the part that you keep humming in your head is the theme.
The Ainur use the themes of Iluvatar to make complicated and beautiful music. Melkor tries to remake the music, and there are a total of three themes introduced. Don't worry if you can't understand all that happens during the making of the music - it's an element of Tolkien's foreshadowing, and we can discuss the themes in greater detail on our second time through the book, when we've all read it once.
Iluvatar then shows them the meaning of their music. They see that they sang the story of all of creation, and it is beautiful. Iluvatar lets them know that this can really BE, and some of the Ainur want to be part of making it happen.
Iluvatar commands, and Ea, the World that Is, began. Think of that as the moment of the big bang. Some of the Ainur enter into Ea and begin to form it, seeking to bring forth the beauties they heard in their music and saw in the vision Iluvatar showed them. They become the Valar.
So begins the very slow process of molding the stars and the great things of the universe. Finally they mold Arda (what will become the Earth), to be the dwelling place of the "Children of Iluvatar."
The "Children of Iluvatar" are something of a puzzle to the Valar. It is clear that they will be independent - not under complete control of the Valar. Iluvatar himself will make them, not the Valar. And the Valar do not know when they will appear.
There are two kinds of "children" - the elves and the men. (Don't worry, the rest of the "free people" that Treebeard sang about will be explained later - except Hobbits.)
Hope this helps! If you find the Ainulindale overwhelming, don't worry. The rest of the book is NOT like this.
_________________________________________
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Message 2 of 8 in Discussion
Sent: 4/11/2002 9:36 PM
This message has been deleted by the author.
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Message 3 of 8 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/11/2002 9:41 PM
Valaquenta is a separate work from Ainulindale. Don't think of them as chapter one and two, but as two independent essays presented before the story begins.
Valaquenta is a reference work, not a story. It describes each of the Valar - the Ainur who came into Ea.
It is easy to get bogged down at this point. If you find yourself thinking "I can't take any more of this," just stop. Skip it, and read it on your next time around.
I've made a chart, to summarize the information in the Valaquenta. I'll try to reproduce it here:
[Stormrider THE CHART GOES HERE]
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Message 4 of 8 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/11/2002 9:43 PM
Success!
That chart is also downloadable as a Word document, from the documents section of the board, under Misc. It's called Valar.doc.
The downloadable version contains a typo. One of the columns is headed "Maiar." These are the lesser Ainur who joined the Valar in Ea. Some of the main ones are described in the Valaquenta, and linked to the Valar that they spent the most time with. They are listed here.
In the downloadable version, that column is headed "Ainur." Sorry for the confusion.
____________________________________________
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Message 5 of 8 in Discussion
From: Glorfindle
Sent: 4/11/2002 9:50 PM
AGAIN...for those finding difficulty in The Valaquenta...I recommend the audio book by actor Martin Shaw. To hear Tolkiens' Mythos, read by such an accomplished actor, makes the whole work spring alive with color, sounds, and depth. Pop it in your cassette player on the way to work, and it all becomes TOO real!
Glor
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Message 6 of 8 in Discussion
From: Soleil
Sent: 4/12/2002 12:04 PM
Megn...
Thank you, thank you, seventy-eleven thank yous! I have this copied and in my notebook!
Soleil
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Message 7 of 8 in Discussion
From: CamelliaDanderfluff
Sent: 4/12/2002 7:22 PM
Thank you so much, Megn & Glor. I played the CD while reading and taking notes on print out. Just hearing all the names pronounced correctly was enjoyable! I've just run a clean copy to put all my thoughts together. Are there questions for us to ponder before Sunday? I can't find them. Thanks so much for the organization.
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Message 8 of 8 in Discussion
From: Azurite
Sent: 4/24/2002 9:16 AM
When I first read the Valaquenta I memorized the names of the Valar and consulted your chart when I needed to, to remind myself of their attributes and specialties. Some were easy - Elbereth/Varda because of the stars and the Elf connection, Tulkas because I liked his Nordic Warrior or Scorpion King image, Manwe because he's head honcho. Others, particularly the women, I kept getting confused. (At the moment my biggest challenge is the Ainur with the )-names like Orome, Osse, etc. I'm working on it.)
Now on reading the Quenta Silmarillion it's easier, because the Valar are interacting with the Elves, and acting in character - developing personalities rather than just identities.
I find Manwe the hardest to get a handle on, in terms of what he is like. Comparing him to Zeus or Christ is counterproductive for me; this clearly isn't Zeus or Christ (which is to say that's clear to me, I'm not saying it is or should be clear to anyone else!) but what his nature is remains obscure to me. A nature-deity with exception insight?
namaste,
Azurite
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 8 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/11/2002 9:32 PM
This is not a discussion thread! Please wait to start discussion until Sunday.
Soliel expressed confusion over the reading, and as I think about it I realize that the beginning of Sil can be bewildering. If it helps, I have summarized the Ainulindale here. I would suggest not reading it until after you have read the chapter.
The Ainulindale:
This is Tolkien's creation story. It begins before the beginning of time, before anything yet "is." Iluvatar (also known as Eru) is the only self-existent being. Everything else comes from him. First made were the Ainur. Think of them as angel-type beings. Iluvatar shares with each a different part of his thoughts. Then he encourages them to make music.
Iluvatar gives them musical "themes." A "theme" in music is a line of melody, which is repeated through a piece of music, with variety and changes but always recognizable. Think of any piece of classical music you know - after you listen to it, the part that you keep humming in your head is the theme.
The Ainur use the themes of Iluvatar to make complicated and beautiful music. Melkor tries to remake the music, and there are a total of three themes introduced. Don't worry if you can't understand all that happens during the making of the music - it's an element of Tolkien's foreshadowing, and we can discuss the themes in greater detail on our second time through the book, when we've all read it once.
Iluvatar then shows them the meaning of their music. They see that they sang the story of all of creation, and it is beautiful. Iluvatar lets them know that this can really BE, and some of the Ainur want to be part of making it happen.
Iluvatar commands, and Ea, the World that Is, began. Think of that as the moment of the big bang. Some of the Ainur enter into Ea and begin to form it, seeking to bring forth the beauties they heard in their music and saw in the vision Iluvatar showed them. They become the Valar.
So begins the very slow process of molding the stars and the great things of the universe. Finally they mold Arda (what will become the Earth), to be the dwelling place of the "Children of Iluvatar."
The "Children of Iluvatar" are something of a puzzle to the Valar. It is clear that they will be independent - not under complete control of the Valar. Iluvatar himself will make them, not the Valar. And the Valar do not know when they will appear.
There are two kinds of "children" - the elves and the men. (Don't worry, the rest of the "free people" that Treebeard sang about will be explained later - except Hobbits.)
Hope this helps! If you find the Ainulindale overwhelming, don't worry. The rest of the book is NOT like this.
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 8 in Discussion
Sent: 4/11/2002 9:36 PM
This message has been deleted by the author.
___________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 8 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/11/2002 9:41 PM
Valaquenta is a separate work from Ainulindale. Don't think of them as chapter one and two, but as two independent essays presented before the story begins.
Valaquenta is a reference work, not a story. It describes each of the Valar - the Ainur who came into Ea.
It is easy to get bogged down at this point. If you find yourself thinking "I can't take any more of this," just stop. Skip it, and read it on your next time around.
I've made a chart, to summarize the information in the Valaquenta. I'll try to reproduce it here:
[Stormrider THE CHART GOES HERE]
____________________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 8 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/11/2002 9:43 PM
Success!
That chart is also downloadable as a Word document, from the documents section of the board, under Misc. It's called Valar.doc.
The downloadable version contains a typo. One of the columns is headed "Maiar." These are the lesser Ainur who joined the Valar in Ea. Some of the main ones are described in the Valaquenta, and linked to the Valar that they spent the most time with. They are listed here.
In the downloadable version, that column is headed "Ainur." Sorry for the confusion.
____________________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 8 in Discussion
From: Glorfindle
Sent: 4/11/2002 9:50 PM
AGAIN...for those finding difficulty in The Valaquenta...I recommend the audio book by actor Martin Shaw. To hear Tolkiens' Mythos, read by such an accomplished actor, makes the whole work spring alive with color, sounds, and depth. Pop it in your cassette player on the way to work, and it all becomes TOO real!
Glor
_______________________________________________
Reply
Message 6 of 8 in Discussion
From: Soleil
Sent: 4/12/2002 12:04 PM
Megn...
Thank you, thank you, seventy-eleven thank yous! I have this copied and in my notebook!
Soleil
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 7 of 8 in Discussion
From: CamelliaDanderfluff
Sent: 4/12/2002 7:22 PM
Thank you so much, Megn & Glor. I played the CD while reading and taking notes on print out. Just hearing all the names pronounced correctly was enjoyable! I've just run a clean copy to put all my thoughts together. Are there questions for us to ponder before Sunday? I can't find them. Thanks so much for the organization.
_______________________________________________
Reply
Message 8 of 8 in Discussion
From: Azurite
Sent: 4/24/2002 9:16 AM
When I first read the Valaquenta I memorized the names of the Valar and consulted your chart when I needed to, to remind myself of their attributes and specialties. Some were easy - Elbereth/Varda because of the stars and the Elf connection, Tulkas because I liked his Nordic Warrior or Scorpion King image, Manwe because he's head honcho. Others, particularly the women, I kept getting confused. (At the moment my biggest challenge is the Ainur with the )-names like Orome, Osse, etc. I'm working on it.)
Now on reading the Quenta Silmarillion it's easier, because the Valar are interacting with the Elves, and acting in character - developing personalities rather than just identities.
I find Manwe the hardest to get a handle on, in terms of what he is like. Comparing him to Zeus or Christ is counterproductive for me; this clearly isn't Zeus or Christ (which is to say that's clear to me, I'm not saying it is or should be clear to anyone else!) but what his nature is remains obscure to me. A nature-deity with exception insight?
namaste,
Azurite