Post by MajahTR on Jan 17, 2009 0:42:43 GMT -6
This will be a bit long for some, but I will try to entertain and enlighten as we summarize the use of Elvish within FotR, and next the TTT. I might attempt to do all languages eventually, but for now I wish to focus upon Elvish.
So I have noted we are beginning to accumulate a number of great Language Studies. Off the top of my head I have noted Olórie has offered Language, and font information, as well she had knowledge of the Elvish counting system which I ignored. Lest I forget it was she who enlightened me to the "Accented Character Chart for PC" thusly allowing me to type "Namárië" correctly.
Ilúviël Almarië is extremely gifted in the study of Amanian Quenya, or the dialect of the Vanyar. I was delighted to see her use of the "accusative" noun form, which the language of the Noldor or Noldorian Quenya has since lost.
Aiya! (Q) "Hail!" It was with such an understated Quenya greeting that Lalwendë became part of our Ring, as well added new entries to our dictionary and exciting me that others study Elvish as well.
And if I use just the dictionary to root out other underground Elvish scholars/ contributors I could add to that list our gifted, and noble Glorfindle, AnnieLT, Arwen Undomiel, and Sigevna.
So with these people, and any others I might have forgotten to mention, in mind I would like to track the use of Elvish within the Tales.
I would like for any interested to add corrections to my brief research as I may have missed some words.
Thanks!
Iarwain
For the Lazy author's convenience all languages will be abbreviated:
(B)-Black Speech
(D)-Dwarvish
(E)-Entish
(NM)-Northern Mannish
(OE)-Old English
(ME)-Middle English
(Q)-Quenya
(R)-Rohirric
(S)-Sindarin
(T)-Telerian
(W)-Westron
Chapter 1 "The Long Expected Party"
We have a great many Hobbit and OE words thrown to us in this chapter but our first mention of Elves on page 32, and indeed an Elvish reference occurs on page 33 with the explanation of the Elvish rune for "G". In the first chapter it seems Tolkien was making us comfortable within the Shire, except for the "G" reference and the "Elf-fountain" fireworks or Gandalf's, most of the language is that of Hobbits, or in Westron or "Common Tongue".
That term within itself supports a sort of unity to the reader and the Hobbits as we journey on.
Chapter 2 "The Shadow of the Past"
It is within this chapter we find Frodo suspected of visiting with the Elves by some of the Shires busy-bodies. In fact I believe it to be a foreshadowing of Frodo's limited Elvish Language grasp.
The Grey Havens are mentioned within this chapter although its Sindarin name "Mithlond" is not mentioned. I do delight in Sam's defense of the Elves in his debate with Ted at the Dragon. We also see Sam's sense of lose regarding the Elves exodus.
At last, page 56 we begin to see the broader world as Tolkien begins to drop hints of history beyond the Shire with the Elvish place Eregion being mentioned.
Eregion-(S) Holly-region (W)-Hollin It was the settled in the SA around 750 by the Gwaith-i-Mirdan-(S) "People-of-the-jewel-smiths" and it's chief city was Ost-in-Edhil-(S) "City-of-the Elves. I find it of interest that it is in contrast having a direct and straight road along the Sirannon- (S) assumed to mean "Gate stream/river", all the way to Hadhodrond-(S) "Khazád-dwelling" or Khazad-dûm-(D) "Dwarf-mansion". The name "Moria"-(S) "Black-pit" seems to be a creation of the Elves after the Dwarves awoke Durin's Bane. I have yet to uncover if that name is unique to the TA. Any help?
Sorry, if I continue as such I will be forever within this chapter, I really think, however, that history merited a mention though.
Mirkwood is mentioned next in this chapter it's Sindarin form is Taur e-Ndaedelos- "The Great Wood" after the WR and it was cleansed it was called Eryn Lasgalen-(S) "Wood of green leaves". Interesting to note before Dol Guldur (S) "Hill of sorcery" was raised Sauron in the TA around 1050, Mirkwood was referred to as "Greenwood the great". Sorry no attested translation noted yet.
Page 57 gives us Saurman whose Sindarin form is "Curunir" meaning "man of skill".
On page 59 we are given an example of one form of Elvish script that has been perverted into Black Speech, and I will not utter those words here.
Page 60 we get Mordor-(S) "Black-Land"
Sauron-(Q) "Abominable" Note first Quenya word in the study!
Page 61: Gil-galad-(S) "Star or radiance" High King of the Noldor in the SA died in the "Last Alliance".
Elendil-(Q) "Star-lover", possible to translate as "Elf-Friend"!
Isildur-(Q) "Moon-friend or Servant of the Moon"
Anduin-(S) "Great River"
Gladden Fields, or in Sindarin "Loeg Ningloron or "Pools of golden water-flowers"
Although not Elvish this is a "jool", so Déagol-(OE) "Nahald-(NM), or Secret!"
Smégol-(?) "Trahald-(NM)- "burrowing"
Esgaroth-(S) "Hiding-foam" The Sindarin form of Laketown on Long lake below the Lonely Mountain.
Aragorn-(S) "Royal-Tree"
Ancalagon-(S) "Jaws-rushing"
Orodruin-(S) "Mountain of red Flame"
Now see how much Elvish you already know! Just by knowing the names of places and people you've a great start in learning the tongue. So on to........
Chapter 3 "Three is Company"
Starting on page 75 Tolkien begins again to school us in Elvish with:
Rivendell- Founded in SA 1697 by Elrond and the remnant of the Gwaith-i-Mirdan fleeing from the destruction of Eregion, Rivendell became the center of lore and counsel.
(S) "Imladris"- "Deep-dale, cleft".
Elrond-(S) "Star-dome"
Gilthoniel-(S) "Star-kindler" {Epithet of Varda}
-O- Now this is of key interest to any whom study Tolkien's tongues because Frodo mentions as Gildor Inglorion's party of Elves approached and spooked the Wraith away from the Hobbit's Frodo says they are "High Elves" by their use of our next word:
Elbereth-(S) "Star Queen" {Epithet of Varda}
So having read Frodo's assumptive reasoning I ask: High Elves are referred to as Eldar, and include Vanyar, Noldor, and Teleri. It strikes me as odd that Frodo would refer to "Elbereth" as an identifier to Elves linage when it is in fact a Sindarin word, and the Sindarin are not considered High Elves? Tolkien blunder? You make the call, but we can also wonder then about the -O- between Varda's Sindarin epithets:
o-(S) "From or of"
o-(Q) "and" yet very obscure and listed as such only in the HoME series "Sauron Defeated" as such.
o, or ó-(Q) "a person" in this form a pronominal suffix yet it to is replaced in later works.
ó-(Q) "describes a meeting or joining of two people or things" prefix usually reduced to "o" (no accent)
So perhaps the poem spoken has more High Elvish clues, but alas we are doomed to read it in Westron, as Tolkien included no Elvish translation for this particular piece.
Gildor-(S) "Star-lord, or Star-land"
Inglorion-(Q) Surname of Gildor an Elda of the House of Finrod, so he was Noldor, and I why I find no Sindarin translation for this name. In Quenya it is loose, so take this with a grain of salt!
Ingolë-(Q) "Science and Philosophy as a whole"
Inga-(Q) "Highest point, or top"
Ingor-(Q) "Summit of a mountain
Ing-(Q) prefix attested to mean "chief" add: óri-(Q) loose plural form of órë for heart and end with: -ion-(Q) suffix genitive plural ending making my loose translation "Chief of hearts" Whew too much work for him, no wonder he's not in the film!
Elen sila lúmenn' omentielvo-(Q) "A Star shines upon [on] the hour of our meeting" In my older copy of LoTR the last word is "omentielmo" and is acceptable. Oh regarding the "o" I mentioned earlier "Omentielvo" is a wonderful example of how this prefix works to signify a meeting.
Elf-Friend- Gildor gives this title to Frodo at this meeting, and I have sought for the true Elvish form, but have found a list:
Elendil-(Q) pl. Elendili
Eldamelda-(Q)- "The beloved of Elves" pl. Eldmeldor (My personal fav!)
Eldanildo-(Q), Eldanildë-(Q) [feminine], Eldasermo-(Q), Eldaseron-(Q) Quendë-nildo-(Q) ect. using the all the same suffixes that were used with the prefix "Elda"-(Q) Elf.
Edhelmellon-(S), pl.Edhelmellonath-(S) Eledh i mellon-(S) Elendur(S)-"Elf Lover"
On page 92 it is mentioned that Gildor's Elves as they served Frodo food and drink were thanked by him in their own tongue. Being that Quenya's use was banned in the SA I am hard pressed to guess which tongue Frodo thanked them in so here is both:
Hantalë-(Q) "Thanks giving" or "Thanks for your giving" (On page 94 says what a delight it was to hear one of another race speak the ancient tongue so I suspect this is what Frodo used.)
Onmân-(S) "To give is good" (Note: My Sindarin is poor at best as I have yet to delve into it deeply, perhaps another might amend this translation with a better form?)
Iarwain
So I have noted we are beginning to accumulate a number of great Language Studies. Off the top of my head I have noted Olórie has offered Language, and font information, as well she had knowledge of the Elvish counting system which I ignored. Lest I forget it was she who enlightened me to the "Accented Character Chart for PC" thusly allowing me to type "Namárië" correctly.
Ilúviël Almarië is extremely gifted in the study of Amanian Quenya, or the dialect of the Vanyar. I was delighted to see her use of the "accusative" noun form, which the language of the Noldor or Noldorian Quenya has since lost.
Aiya! (Q) "Hail!" It was with such an understated Quenya greeting that Lalwendë became part of our Ring, as well added new entries to our dictionary and exciting me that others study Elvish as well.
And if I use just the dictionary to root out other underground Elvish scholars/ contributors I could add to that list our gifted, and noble Glorfindle, AnnieLT, Arwen Undomiel, and Sigevna.
So with these people, and any others I might have forgotten to mention, in mind I would like to track the use of Elvish within the Tales.
I would like for any interested to add corrections to my brief research as I may have missed some words.
Thanks!
Iarwain
For the Lazy author's convenience all languages will be abbreviated:
(B)-Black Speech
(D)-Dwarvish
(E)-Entish
(NM)-Northern Mannish
(OE)-Old English
(ME)-Middle English
(Q)-Quenya
(R)-Rohirric
(S)-Sindarin
(T)-Telerian
(W)-Westron
Chapter 1 "The Long Expected Party"
We have a great many Hobbit and OE words thrown to us in this chapter but our first mention of Elves on page 32, and indeed an Elvish reference occurs on page 33 with the explanation of the Elvish rune for "G". In the first chapter it seems Tolkien was making us comfortable within the Shire, except for the "G" reference and the "Elf-fountain" fireworks or Gandalf's, most of the language is that of Hobbits, or in Westron or "Common Tongue".
That term within itself supports a sort of unity to the reader and the Hobbits as we journey on.
Chapter 2 "The Shadow of the Past"
It is within this chapter we find Frodo suspected of visiting with the Elves by some of the Shires busy-bodies. In fact I believe it to be a foreshadowing of Frodo's limited Elvish Language grasp.
The Grey Havens are mentioned within this chapter although its Sindarin name "Mithlond" is not mentioned. I do delight in Sam's defense of the Elves in his debate with Ted at the Dragon. We also see Sam's sense of lose regarding the Elves exodus.
At last, page 56 we begin to see the broader world as Tolkien begins to drop hints of history beyond the Shire with the Elvish place Eregion being mentioned.
Eregion-(S) Holly-region (W)-Hollin It was the settled in the SA around 750 by the Gwaith-i-Mirdan-(S) "People-of-the-jewel-smiths" and it's chief city was Ost-in-Edhil-(S) "City-of-the Elves. I find it of interest that it is in contrast having a direct and straight road along the Sirannon- (S) assumed to mean "Gate stream/river", all the way to Hadhodrond-(S) "Khazád-dwelling" or Khazad-dûm-(D) "Dwarf-mansion". The name "Moria"-(S) "Black-pit" seems to be a creation of the Elves after the Dwarves awoke Durin's Bane. I have yet to uncover if that name is unique to the TA. Any help?
Sorry, if I continue as such I will be forever within this chapter, I really think, however, that history merited a mention though.
Mirkwood is mentioned next in this chapter it's Sindarin form is Taur e-Ndaedelos- "The Great Wood" after the WR and it was cleansed it was called Eryn Lasgalen-(S) "Wood of green leaves". Interesting to note before Dol Guldur (S) "Hill of sorcery" was raised Sauron in the TA around 1050, Mirkwood was referred to as "Greenwood the great". Sorry no attested translation noted yet.
Page 57 gives us Saurman whose Sindarin form is "Curunir" meaning "man of skill".
On page 59 we are given an example of one form of Elvish script that has been perverted into Black Speech, and I will not utter those words here.
Page 60 we get Mordor-(S) "Black-Land"
Sauron-(Q) "Abominable" Note first Quenya word in the study!
Page 61: Gil-galad-(S) "Star or radiance" High King of the Noldor in the SA died in the "Last Alliance".
Elendil-(Q) "Star-lover", possible to translate as "Elf-Friend"!
Isildur-(Q) "Moon-friend or Servant of the Moon"
Anduin-(S) "Great River"
Gladden Fields, or in Sindarin "Loeg Ningloron or "Pools of golden water-flowers"
Although not Elvish this is a "jool", so Déagol-(OE) "Nahald-(NM), or Secret!"
Smégol-(?) "Trahald-(NM)- "burrowing"
Esgaroth-(S) "Hiding-foam" The Sindarin form of Laketown on Long lake below the Lonely Mountain.
Aragorn-(S) "Royal-Tree"
Ancalagon-(S) "Jaws-rushing"
Orodruin-(S) "Mountain of red Flame"
Now see how much Elvish you already know! Just by knowing the names of places and people you've a great start in learning the tongue. So on to........
Chapter 3 "Three is Company"
Starting on page 75 Tolkien begins again to school us in Elvish with:
Rivendell- Founded in SA 1697 by Elrond and the remnant of the Gwaith-i-Mirdan fleeing from the destruction of Eregion, Rivendell became the center of lore and counsel.
(S) "Imladris"- "Deep-dale, cleft".
Elrond-(S) "Star-dome"
Gilthoniel-(S) "Star-kindler" {Epithet of Varda}
-O- Now this is of key interest to any whom study Tolkien's tongues because Frodo mentions as Gildor Inglorion's party of Elves approached and spooked the Wraith away from the Hobbit's Frodo says they are "High Elves" by their use of our next word:
Elbereth-(S) "Star Queen" {Epithet of Varda}
So having read Frodo's assumptive reasoning I ask: High Elves are referred to as Eldar, and include Vanyar, Noldor, and Teleri. It strikes me as odd that Frodo would refer to "Elbereth" as an identifier to Elves linage when it is in fact a Sindarin word, and the Sindarin are not considered High Elves? Tolkien blunder? You make the call, but we can also wonder then about the -O- between Varda's Sindarin epithets:
o-(S) "From or of"
o-(Q) "and" yet very obscure and listed as such only in the HoME series "Sauron Defeated" as such.
o, or ó-(Q) "a person" in this form a pronominal suffix yet it to is replaced in later works.
ó-(Q) "describes a meeting or joining of two people or things" prefix usually reduced to "o" (no accent)
So perhaps the poem spoken has more High Elvish clues, but alas we are doomed to read it in Westron, as Tolkien included no Elvish translation for this particular piece.
Gildor-(S) "Star-lord, or Star-land"
Inglorion-(Q) Surname of Gildor an Elda of the House of Finrod, so he was Noldor, and I why I find no Sindarin translation for this name. In Quenya it is loose, so take this with a grain of salt!
Ingolë-(Q) "Science and Philosophy as a whole"
Inga-(Q) "Highest point, or top"
Ingor-(Q) "Summit of a mountain
Ing-(Q) prefix attested to mean "chief" add: óri-(Q) loose plural form of órë for heart and end with: -ion-(Q) suffix genitive plural ending making my loose translation "Chief of hearts" Whew too much work for him, no wonder he's not in the film!
Elen sila lúmenn' omentielvo-(Q) "A Star shines upon [on] the hour of our meeting" In my older copy of LoTR the last word is "omentielmo" and is acceptable. Oh regarding the "o" I mentioned earlier "Omentielvo" is a wonderful example of how this prefix works to signify a meeting.
Elf-Friend- Gildor gives this title to Frodo at this meeting, and I have sought for the true Elvish form, but have found a list:
Elendil-(Q) pl. Elendili
Eldamelda-(Q)- "The beloved of Elves" pl. Eldmeldor (My personal fav!)
Eldanildo-(Q), Eldanildë-(Q) [feminine], Eldasermo-(Q), Eldaseron-(Q) Quendë-nildo-(Q) ect. using the all the same suffixes that were used with the prefix "Elda"-(Q) Elf.
Edhelmellon-(S), pl.Edhelmellonath-(S) Eledh i mellon-(S) Elendur(S)-"Elf Lover"
On page 92 it is mentioned that Gildor's Elves as they served Frodo food and drink were thanked by him in their own tongue. Being that Quenya's use was banned in the SA I am hard pressed to guess which tongue Frodo thanked them in so here is both:
Hantalë-(Q) "Thanks giving" or "Thanks for your giving" (On page 94 says what a delight it was to hear one of another race speak the ancient tongue so I suspect this is what Frodo used.)
Onmân-(S) "To give is good" (Note: My Sindarin is poor at best as I have yet to delve into it deeply, perhaps another might amend this translation with a better form?)
Iarwain