Post by Andorinha on Jan 18, 2009 10:35:37 GMT -6
Green Elves of Ossiriand vs Men
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Message 1 of 3 in Discussion
From: Stormrider
Sent: 5/11/2002 10:34 PM
In the Chapter of the Silmarillion "Of the Coming of Men into the West," in the second paragraph of the second section, it states that the Green Elves were not happy with the appearance of Men to their land. They asked Felagund to send the Men back to where they came from because : "We desire no strangers in this land to break the peace in which we live. And these folk are hewers of trees and hunters of beasts; therefore we are their unfriends, and if they will not depart we shall afflict them in all ways that we can."
Didn't the Elves use wood for fires or to build? What about paper? And didn't they eat meat or need the firs for leather or warm clothing? Was it just the Green Elves who felt this way? Did the Men just use too much and that was the reason the Green Elves did not like them in their lands?
I am curious about this question because I want to do something in the Adventure in Middle Earth Role Play and I do not want to offend the Elves of Rivendell with what I am planning.
If anyone has any comments on my questions, please help!
Thanks, Stormrider
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Message 2 of 3 in Discussion
From: DaleAnn
Sent: 5/12/2002 3:53 PM
Stormrider, I don't have a copy of The Hobbit handy, but, didn't the WoodElves hunt?
I take the quote to mean that man is wasteful. Perhaps, the "hunters of beasts" means "Big Game" trophy hunting rather than food hunting. "Hewers of trees" may mean that man chops down more than he uses for housing or fuel.
I did a search for vegetarian Elves. Didn't come up with much of substance. But, now I know, (as if I care) that O. Bloom is a vegetarian.
PS. Like your pictures. Grandson is a cutie! ----DA
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Message 3 of 3 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 5/24/2002 7:36 PM
Gosh this thread is old, sorry i've been very busy or I would have jumped on this one from the begining. Now aside from the fact that I am not able to know Tolkiens mind as he wrote these tales, and the fact that I have Native American blood in my veins. I have always Loved the way the Green Elves/Laiquendi were ready to stand up for their land (considering that after the loss of Denethor their King they had sworn not to make war anymore).
So in my twisted perspective I see the Eldar/Elves as being apart or piece of Nature, they are the very esscense of Middle Earth as they have learned to live in it and with it for countless generations. They held in reverance the gifts of Arda. Whereas the Edan/Man was realitivly new to Middle Earth and seemed not to have reverance fo anything save his on power and the increasing of it.
This not to say that the Eldar/Elves did not make use of wood, hunt, or even at times clear land but what they did do (in the begining) is make a point to talk to the trees and beast about them and ask permission or at affirm the sentient nature inherent to these beings. Whereas the Edan/Man never cared except for the rare cases such as Beren.
So mayhaps we can all see the similarity here between the failing of North Americas Native Peoples and these Green Elves or Laiquendi. There is of course no perfect answer and owing to Tolkiens on distaste for allegory I take great risk here, but no greater risk than that of Christians claiming Tolkiens main theme was that of a Christian origin.
Namarie Eldameldor,
Iarwain
_________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 3 in Discussion
From: Stormrider
Sent: 5/11/2002 10:34 PM
In the Chapter of the Silmarillion "Of the Coming of Men into the West," in the second paragraph of the second section, it states that the Green Elves were not happy with the appearance of Men to their land. They asked Felagund to send the Men back to where they came from because : "We desire no strangers in this land to break the peace in which we live. And these folk are hewers of trees and hunters of beasts; therefore we are their unfriends, and if they will not depart we shall afflict them in all ways that we can."
Didn't the Elves use wood for fires or to build? What about paper? And didn't they eat meat or need the firs for leather or warm clothing? Was it just the Green Elves who felt this way? Did the Men just use too much and that was the reason the Green Elves did not like them in their lands?
I am curious about this question because I want to do something in the Adventure in Middle Earth Role Play and I do not want to offend the Elves of Rivendell with what I am planning.
If anyone has any comments on my questions, please help!
Thanks, Stormrider
__________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 3 in Discussion
From: DaleAnn
Sent: 5/12/2002 3:53 PM
Stormrider, I don't have a copy of The Hobbit handy, but, didn't the WoodElves hunt?
I take the quote to mean that man is wasteful. Perhaps, the "hunters of beasts" means "Big Game" trophy hunting rather than food hunting. "Hewers of trees" may mean that man chops down more than he uses for housing or fuel.
I did a search for vegetarian Elves. Didn't come up with much of substance. But, now I know, (as if I care) that O. Bloom is a vegetarian.
PS. Like your pictures. Grandson is a cutie! ----DA
_______________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 3 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 5/24/2002 7:36 PM
Gosh this thread is old, sorry i've been very busy or I would have jumped on this one from the begining. Now aside from the fact that I am not able to know Tolkiens mind as he wrote these tales, and the fact that I have Native American blood in my veins. I have always Loved the way the Green Elves/Laiquendi were ready to stand up for their land (considering that after the loss of Denethor their King they had sworn not to make war anymore).
So in my twisted perspective I see the Eldar/Elves as being apart or piece of Nature, they are the very esscense of Middle Earth as they have learned to live in it and with it for countless generations. They held in reverance the gifts of Arda. Whereas the Edan/Man was realitivly new to Middle Earth and seemed not to have reverance fo anything save his on power and the increasing of it.
This not to say that the Eldar/Elves did not make use of wood, hunt, or even at times clear land but what they did do (in the begining) is make a point to talk to the trees and beast about them and ask permission or at affirm the sentient nature inherent to these beings. Whereas the Edan/Man never cared except for the rare cases such as Beren.
So mayhaps we can all see the similarity here between the failing of North Americas Native Peoples and these Green Elves or Laiquendi. There is of course no perfect answer and owing to Tolkiens on distaste for allegory I take great risk here, but no greater risk than that of Christians claiming Tolkiens main theme was that of a Christian origin.
Namarie Eldameldor,
Iarwain