Post by Andorinha on Jan 18, 2009 11:51:59 GMT -6
Week Nine - Akallabeth
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Message 1 of 7 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 6/15/2002 11:15 PM
Our reading assignment for this week was Akallabeth: The Downfall of Numenor.
As has been said in the thread that was begun some months ago, this is a depressing story. Quenta Silmarillion ends with the world put right - the dawn of a golden age for Middle Earth. But though Melkor is gone, Sauron remains. And the memory of men is shorter than the millenium that follow.
This is the story of the second age. In Appendix B, at the end of Return of the King, you will find this age summarized. Though it is a brief tale as told in Akallabeth, it covers 3319 years of history. From that perspective, Numenor is a remarkably long-lived realm. No empire, nation, or state has lasted a fraction of that time. Still, it is hard to accept that anything so high and pure in its founding could fall to such a great depth.
In the other thread I suggested a connection between this tale and the events of Tolkien's own life. The end of WWI, in which he had suffered, and lost so much, might have felt like the kind of victory that was won when Melkor was overthrown. Yet the "War to End All Wars" failed to create lasting peace, and couple of decades later he was to witness another war fought for the very same territory. Do all victories come to naught in the end?
In reading "Letters," I came across this passage from Tolkien to his son Christopher in May 1944. Christopher was in training for the war.
"You are inside a very great story! I think also that you are suffering from suppressed 'writing'. That may be my fault. You have had rather too much of me and my peculiar mode of though and reaction.... I sense among all your pains (some merely physical) the desire to express your feeling about good, evil, fair, foul in some way: to rationalize it, and prevent it just festering. In my case it generated Morgoth and the History of the Gnomes. Lots of the early parts of which (and the languages) - discarded or absorbed - were done in grimy canteens, at lectures in cold fogs, in huts full of blasphemy and smut, or by candle light in bell-tents, even some down in dugouts under shell fire."
"History of the Gnomes" was the earliest form of Silmarillion. "Gnomes" was his early word for the Noldorian Elves.
I'd love to hear the thoughts of others on this!
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Message 2 of 7 in Discussion
From: sparrow
Sent: 6/17/2002 8:47 PM
Megn1, here are my thoughts.
Numenor was not the first realm founded high and pure that fell. Middle Earth did so first. How many times must the world be restored only to fall again?
At least Akallabeth does end on a note of hope - a remnant escapes and survives in the line of Isuldur. Of course, we all know Isuldur missed his great opportunity to destroy the one ring and banish Sauron forever, but we also know that would not have banished evil forever, anyway.
It does seem that Tolkien has drawn from his own wartime experience. The Silmarillion is one battle after another, Akallabeth continues the fighting, which extends into LOTR. Life does seem to go in cycles. Things get better in some ways for a while, then the pendulum swings in the other direction.
It is interesting to me that in the letter you quote Tolkien himself made a direct link between his wartime experience and his writing, after we hear so much about him not writing allegory!
~Sparrow626
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Message 3 of 7 in Discussion
From: jerseyshore
Sent: 6/18/2002 12:04 PM
Did anyone else see the Great Flood in the destruction of Numeor? Elendil seems to me like the Noah of the Akallabeth.
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Message 4 of 7 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 6/18/2002 4:34 PM
Jerseyshore,
Yes and no. The downfall of Numenor is like the Great Flood in that it is prompted by the unfaithfulness of the inhabitants of the land. And it is wet. But that's about all the similarities I see.
The allusion I think of is the story of Atlantis. Having said that, I have to admit that I know NOTHING about Atlantis.
I don't know what was on Tolkien's mind as he wrote it. The sea is certainly a powerful force in his writings.
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Message 5 of 7 in Discussion
From: sparrow
Sent: 6/18/2002 5:13 PM
When I read about the destruction of Numenor, I thought of Atlantis, like Megn, about which I also know nothing. Now that you mention it, Jerseyshore, I see similarities to Noah and the flood, with Isulder's line escaping by boat the punishment of the flood, thought not with a pair of every kind of living creature, and though the destruction was not complete.
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Message 6 of 7 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 6/18/2002 9:06 PM
Well not that I have all that great a store of knowlege about Atlantis, I do know of it being an island first mentioned by I believe Plato. It was said to have existed in the Atlantic ocean somewhere west of Gibraltar. I am however inclined to agree that Tolkien made allusions if not "blatant allegory" towards this mythical downfall in his tale of the Akallabeth. My proof, Atalante' the Quenya word for Numenor means Perfective-down-fallen. I'm not sure if in truth he did this to provide a common myth to add to plausability to his tale, or if he was of a mind to someday add more to this sad epic. But Atalante's placement into the tale is no coincidence I'm sure.
Namarie Eldameldor,
Iarwain
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Message 7 of 7 in Discussion
From: Zauber
Sent: 6/20/2002 12:57 PM
As well as Atalante, we also have Avallone, which is reminiscent of Avalon, the priestess training island in Arthur's England!
I am reading 'Tolkien and the Silmarillion', by Clyde S. Kilby. Written in 1976 (Harold Shaw Publishers), it predates the Silmarillion's publication and is more of a personal reminiscence than analysis of the Sil. In any event, what has bearing for this thread: "He [JRRT] has the intention of completing the full account of the Second Age of Middle Earth under the title The Akallabeth, a word made up of 'kalab' meaning "fall down", with the doubled 'l' giving it intensity, i.e., "the great fall". The Numenorean language, he informed me, is based on Hebrew."
Later in the book, Kilby says "Tolkien collaborated in the preparation of the Jerusalem Bible by translating the Book of Job into English from what he called a very bad literal French version. His keen sense of rightness led him to learn a considerable amount of Hebrew preparatory to his task."
I do not remember Hebrew listed as one of Tolkien's accomplishments, so this was interesting to me. Tolkien said the languages came first, the hisotries, the peoples and landscape, second. This makes this idea even more real, the image of Tolkien PLAYING and experimening with language, and this being the impetus for the creation of this awesome world.
Zaube
_____________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 7 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 6/15/2002 11:15 PM
Our reading assignment for this week was Akallabeth: The Downfall of Numenor.
As has been said in the thread that was begun some months ago, this is a depressing story. Quenta Silmarillion ends with the world put right - the dawn of a golden age for Middle Earth. But though Melkor is gone, Sauron remains. And the memory of men is shorter than the millenium that follow.
This is the story of the second age. In Appendix B, at the end of Return of the King, you will find this age summarized. Though it is a brief tale as told in Akallabeth, it covers 3319 years of history. From that perspective, Numenor is a remarkably long-lived realm. No empire, nation, or state has lasted a fraction of that time. Still, it is hard to accept that anything so high and pure in its founding could fall to such a great depth.
In the other thread I suggested a connection between this tale and the events of Tolkien's own life. The end of WWI, in which he had suffered, and lost so much, might have felt like the kind of victory that was won when Melkor was overthrown. Yet the "War to End All Wars" failed to create lasting peace, and couple of decades later he was to witness another war fought for the very same territory. Do all victories come to naught in the end?
In reading "Letters," I came across this passage from Tolkien to his son Christopher in May 1944. Christopher was in training for the war.
"You are inside a very great story! I think also that you are suffering from suppressed 'writing'. That may be my fault. You have had rather too much of me and my peculiar mode of though and reaction.... I sense among all your pains (some merely physical) the desire to express your feeling about good, evil, fair, foul in some way: to rationalize it, and prevent it just festering. In my case it generated Morgoth and the History of the Gnomes. Lots of the early parts of which (and the languages) - discarded or absorbed - were done in grimy canteens, at lectures in cold fogs, in huts full of blasphemy and smut, or by candle light in bell-tents, even some down in dugouts under shell fire."
"History of the Gnomes" was the earliest form of Silmarillion. "Gnomes" was his early word for the Noldorian Elves.
I'd love to hear the thoughts of others on this!
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 7 in Discussion
From: sparrow
Sent: 6/17/2002 8:47 PM
Megn1, here are my thoughts.
Numenor was not the first realm founded high and pure that fell. Middle Earth did so first. How many times must the world be restored only to fall again?
At least Akallabeth does end on a note of hope - a remnant escapes and survives in the line of Isuldur. Of course, we all know Isuldur missed his great opportunity to destroy the one ring and banish Sauron forever, but we also know that would not have banished evil forever, anyway.
It does seem that Tolkien has drawn from his own wartime experience. The Silmarillion is one battle after another, Akallabeth continues the fighting, which extends into LOTR. Life does seem to go in cycles. Things get better in some ways for a while, then the pendulum swings in the other direction.
It is interesting to me that in the letter you quote Tolkien himself made a direct link between his wartime experience and his writing, after we hear so much about him not writing allegory!
~Sparrow626
____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 7 in Discussion
From: jerseyshore
Sent: 6/18/2002 12:04 PM
Did anyone else see the Great Flood in the destruction of Numeor? Elendil seems to me like the Noah of the Akallabeth.
__________________________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 7 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 6/18/2002 4:34 PM
Jerseyshore,
Yes and no. The downfall of Numenor is like the Great Flood in that it is prompted by the unfaithfulness of the inhabitants of the land. And it is wet. But that's about all the similarities I see.
The allusion I think of is the story of Atlantis. Having said that, I have to admit that I know NOTHING about Atlantis.
I don't know what was on Tolkien's mind as he wrote it. The sea is certainly a powerful force in his writings.
______________________________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 7 in Discussion
From: sparrow
Sent: 6/18/2002 5:13 PM
When I read about the destruction of Numenor, I thought of Atlantis, like Megn, about which I also know nothing. Now that you mention it, Jerseyshore, I see similarities to Noah and the flood, with Isulder's line escaping by boat the punishment of the flood, thought not with a pair of every kind of living creature, and though the destruction was not complete.
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 6 of 7 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 6/18/2002 9:06 PM
Well not that I have all that great a store of knowlege about Atlantis, I do know of it being an island first mentioned by I believe Plato. It was said to have existed in the Atlantic ocean somewhere west of Gibraltar. I am however inclined to agree that Tolkien made allusions if not "blatant allegory" towards this mythical downfall in his tale of the Akallabeth. My proof, Atalante' the Quenya word for Numenor means Perfective-down-fallen. I'm not sure if in truth he did this to provide a common myth to add to plausability to his tale, or if he was of a mind to someday add more to this sad epic. But Atalante's placement into the tale is no coincidence I'm sure.
Namarie Eldameldor,
Iarwain
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 7 of 7 in Discussion
From: Zauber
Sent: 6/20/2002 12:57 PM
As well as Atalante, we also have Avallone, which is reminiscent of Avalon, the priestess training island in Arthur's England!
I am reading 'Tolkien and the Silmarillion', by Clyde S. Kilby. Written in 1976 (Harold Shaw Publishers), it predates the Silmarillion's publication and is more of a personal reminiscence than analysis of the Sil. In any event, what has bearing for this thread: "He [JRRT] has the intention of completing the full account of the Second Age of Middle Earth under the title The Akallabeth, a word made up of 'kalab' meaning "fall down", with the doubled 'l' giving it intensity, i.e., "the great fall". The Numenorean language, he informed me, is based on Hebrew."
Later in the book, Kilby says "Tolkien collaborated in the preparation of the Jerusalem Bible by translating the Book of Job into English from what he called a very bad literal French version. His keen sense of rightness led him to learn a considerable amount of Hebrew preparatory to his task."
I do not remember Hebrew listed as one of Tolkien's accomplishments, so this was interesting to me. Tolkien said the languages came first, the hisotries, the peoples and landscape, second. This makes this idea even more real, the image of Tolkien PLAYING and experimening with language, and this being the impetus for the creation of this awesome world.
Zaube