Post by Andorinha on Jan 18, 2009 18:04:00 GMT -6
Week seven - the fall of Doriath
________________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 2 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 6/5/2002 5:20 AM
The girdle of Melian could withstand all enemies, and kept Doriath safe through centuries of turmoil and war. Then, almost without warning, it is gone.
Was it greed, pure and simple, that caused the downfall? Or treachery? Or was it something more?
Would Doriath stand still, if Feanor had never been born?
____________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 2 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 6/23/2002 8:07 AM
Wow Megan,
You have given so many insightful questions that are causing me to analyze much deeper my Love of Tolkien and in the action increasing this Love by seeing so many new opinions and venues. Thank you very much!
As to the first question I would have to go with "somthing more" that caused the Ruin of Doriath. I believe it's fates were sealed in the beginings of Beren and Luthiens Tale when Thingol demanded a Simaril as a reverse dowry. Melian even forsaw that shadow of doom and said:
["O King, you have devised cunning counsel. But if my eyes have not lost their sight, it is ill for you, whether Beren fail in his errand, or achieve it. For you have doomed either your daughter, or yourself. And now is Doriath drawn within the fate of a mightier realm."]
I believe she forsees Beren's success and therefore the problems inherent with owning a Silmaril. First the previous owners want it back, and then the neighboring Dwarves see it and they want it, not to mention the strain it will place on a mortal grandsire who might try to wear it.
So as to Doriath's fall, I believe the Silmaril played a key role as a catalyst to the downfall based on the Curse of Feanor. I will admit that greed played a role in several areas of Doriath's demise, but I see that ever working Curse as the true cause of it's ruin.
If Feanor had never been born? Well Doriath would have still fallen, owing to the long defeat. Because although there would be no Silmaril in this non-Feanor Doriath Luthien would have still fallen in love with Beren and Thingol would have still been unwilling to allow this union. The actions would undoubtly been more severe and possibly quicker but the outcome would become evident. The death of Luthien in mourning for Beren and with that you would also have the withdraw of Melian in mourning for the loss of her greatest creation.
Perhaps others will see it differently and I should hope so because that's what makes life a delight, infinte diversity.
Namarie Eldameldor,
Iarwain
________________________________________________
Reply
Message 1 of 2 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 6/5/2002 5:20 AM
The girdle of Melian could withstand all enemies, and kept Doriath safe through centuries of turmoil and war. Then, almost without warning, it is gone.
Was it greed, pure and simple, that caused the downfall? Or treachery? Or was it something more?
Would Doriath stand still, if Feanor had never been born?
____________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 2 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 6/23/2002 8:07 AM
Wow Megan,
You have given so many insightful questions that are causing me to analyze much deeper my Love of Tolkien and in the action increasing this Love by seeing so many new opinions and venues. Thank you very much!
As to the first question I would have to go with "somthing more" that caused the Ruin of Doriath. I believe it's fates were sealed in the beginings of Beren and Luthiens Tale when Thingol demanded a Simaril as a reverse dowry. Melian even forsaw that shadow of doom and said:
["O King, you have devised cunning counsel. But if my eyes have not lost their sight, it is ill for you, whether Beren fail in his errand, or achieve it. For you have doomed either your daughter, or yourself. And now is Doriath drawn within the fate of a mightier realm."]
I believe she forsees Beren's success and therefore the problems inherent with owning a Silmaril. First the previous owners want it back, and then the neighboring Dwarves see it and they want it, not to mention the strain it will place on a mortal grandsire who might try to wear it.
So as to Doriath's fall, I believe the Silmaril played a key role as a catalyst to the downfall based on the Curse of Feanor. I will admit that greed played a role in several areas of Doriath's demise, but I see that ever working Curse as the true cause of it's ruin.
If Feanor had never been born? Well Doriath would have still fallen, owing to the long defeat. Because although there would be no Silmaril in this non-Feanor Doriath Luthien would have still fallen in love with Beren and Thingol would have still been unwilling to allow this union. The actions would undoubtly been more severe and possibly quicker but the outcome would become evident. The death of Luthien in mourning for Beren and with that you would also have the withdraw of Melian in mourning for the loss of her greatest creation.
Perhaps others will see it differently and I should hope so because that's what makes life a delight, infinte diversity.
Namarie Eldameldor,
Iarwain