Post by Andorinha on Jan 18, 2009 18:58:07 GMT -6
Week one - Melkor
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Message 1 of 44 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/13/2002 9:01 PM
Melkor
I don’t think I’m giving anything away by saying that Melkor is the primary “bad guy” in this story. The primary clues to his personality are all in “Ainulindale.” So what is it, in him, that causes him to take the path he does? What is the source or origin of his “fall?” What can we learn about the nature of evil from the character of Melkor (as we have seen him thus far)?
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Message 2 of 44 in Discussion
From: Lady_Oiolaire
Sent: 4/13/2002 10:47 PM
I'm going to open up a can of worms....
Relative Evil!!! LOL
Melkor was not evil in the beginning, but became evil when he was left to his own devices. Like a child that will be good until he discovers that he has the ability to be disobedient.
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Message 3 of 44 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameLord_Algamesh
Sent: 4/13/2002 11:07 PM
One passage that really intrigues me about Melkor's intentions follows:
"But when the Ainur had beheld this habitation in a vision and had seen the Children of Ilùvatar arise therein, then many of the most mighty among them bent all their though and their desire towards that place. And of these Melkor was the chief, even as he was in the beginning the greatest of the Ainur who took part in the Music. And he feigned, even to himself at first, that he desired to go thither and order all things for the good of the Children of Ilùvatar, controlling the turmoils of the heat and the cold that had come to pass through them."
The words that I have highlighted in the above transcript seems to suggest that Melkor's thoughts were pure and good for some (probably) small measure of time. Possibly this Valar could have been saved at this crucial moment, which I find distantly reminescent to Gollum's self-struggle, by some undeveloped fortune through his brethren. Then again, maybe it was within Ilùvatar's thought that Melkor must travel the darker path to create balance in the world.
I have long pondered this entry ans I suppose there is no definitive answer.
Algamesh
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Message 4 of 44 in Discussion
From: Cephas
Sent: 4/14/2002 4:52 AM
With reference to Algamesh's recent post, I would like to give my two cents worth.
I believe Melkor began as good. After all, all the Valar were created from the thoughts of Illuvatar, the one god. Would something evil spring from the mind of one who is good? This allusion to a created being who started out good but ended evil has echoes in the Bible (fall of Lucifer), Norse mythology ( Loki). Many of Maiar, who began as good eventually ended up evil after following Melkor. Remember Sauron, the Balrogs?
My point? Nothing began as evil, all were designed to be good by Illuvatar..the thoughts of how Orcs came about suddenly flashed in my mind..could Melkor have been redeemed? I do believe that since an Orc Rehab exists somewhere, may he could.
Cephas
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Message 5 of 44 in Discussion
From: Azurite
Sent: 4/14/2002 9:06 AM
I think the fatal flaw in Melkor is ego. Tolkien makes the point that Aulë was very like him, but cared most for the things he created and liked to share his ideas and help others. Melkor thought of himself first, and wanted to control others, and wanted others to admire him while allowing him dominion. In other words, he's a personality out of control.
I don't think there is a point at which he could have been changed, once he had chosen this as his desire. Before that, it was of course a matter of choice. *Why* he made that choice isn't clear, except that in giving the Ainur free will, Iluvatar gave them the option of making the wrong choices, and Melkor made the wrong choices because those were the choices he wanted to make.
In other words, I don't see much relativism here.
Which makes me ask - if Melkor did change, if he did rehabilitate, what place for him would there be in the world of the Valar? Could they trust him again? (Ossë seems to have rehabilitated well enough, but his crimes were lesser and briefer.)
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Message 6 of 44 in Discussion
From: rivers
Sent: 4/14/2002 10:58 AM
I concur with Azurite I believe that Melkor wanted to be worshipped in the same way that Iluvatar was since he was the most powerful he should be unquestionably obeyed and revered above others. He was not a team player as he was arrogant and condescending. He never asked for nor offered advice or help, giving me the idea that the thoughts of others were beneath him as he was the master and they were his servants. A mind which works like that can see no other path other than his own and would probably feel that he was helping the others by subverting them to his ideas surely since the ideas were his own they must be correct because he was the most gifted and powerful. His natural instinct towards secrecy and dominion would naturally turn a bunch of honest hard working beings against him. Finally he was envious of the others especially Manwe due to the fact that he had usurped the place Melkor was naturally a perfect fit for. Finally after he was subverted and could no longer create his shame grew so great that he would destroy ME rather than have these lesser beings bear witness to his humiiation. IMHO
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Message 7 of 44 in Discussion
From: Stormrider
Sent: 4/14/2002 11:35 AM
I agree it was his Ego. He thought he was equal to Iluvatar and wanted everything his way. He had a power thing going right from the start, too.
Azurite and Rivers: You both explain it very well!
Iluvatar was a kinder "god" whereas Melkor would not be tolerant of his subjects as Iluvatar was.
Stormrider
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Message 8 of 44 in Discussion
From: Cephas
Sent: 4/14/2002 11:38 AM
Azurite, you are right. The biggest flaw seems to be his ego. However, Tolkien didn't just stop there. He went on to detail Melkor's other flaws which contributed to his evil nature.
In Ainulindale, it states, "..as the theme progressed, it came into the heart of Melkor to interweave matters of his own imagining that were not in accord with the theme of Illuvatar; for he sought therein to increase the power and the glory assigned to himself."
The first highlighted phrase revealed Melkor's state of mind. For indeed "matters of his own imaging" declares that he believes he has the power that, if not equal, is greater than that of Illuvatar. That is pride. It is also telling that he wanted " to have subjects and servants, and to be called Lord, and to be a master over other wills."
The following phrase " power and glory " strongly suggests that another of Melkor's flaws was his greed. He wanted to increase his stature, his power, when it was clearly stated that "..to Melkor..(is) given the greatest gift of power and knowledge...".
Yet, we see that there is more to come. "..for desire grew hot within him to bring Beings things of his own.." This is lust, a lust for the Flame Imperishable, a lust to create. With three of the most serious of the 7 deadly sins, we ponder over Melkor's fate and his eventual transformation into the Dark Lord.
Yet another, for when Illuvatar rebukes him, which he " ..was filled with shame, of which came secret anger.." Ah, wrath..another of the 7 deadly sins.
Sins aside, I do not ascribe to the notion of Melkor's inherent evil. Remember, "it came into the heart of Melkor..". The hint here is the verb "came". This apparent evil didn't have any inherent roots in Melkor, this evil "came" to him. Whence this evil came from, the Ainulindale does not say. But as Illuvatar remarked to Melkor that "no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in [him], nor can any alter the music in [his] despite." Even the music in the beginning had "no flaws". Melkor began having evil designs, he also influenced others to be like him.
Well, if Osse could humble himself and apologise why not Melkor? I think he could have given there's always an element of goodness in everyone,hence the fact that he wasn't completely evil.But for his pride, he wanted to be a "master over wills".
Just my thoughts.
Cephas
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Message 9 of 44 in Discussion
From: DaveGude
Sent: 4/14/2002 12:03 PM
I see this creation story working on two levels.
1. The Cosmos. Myth can explain the world of order/chaos we see by giving "personality" to natural forces. Thus, we have the wind and wheather depicted as a personality named Manwe, or fire and ice become the personality named Melkor, etc. So, OK Algamesh, in this regard your idea of the necessary of balance makes perfect sense. The natural order of things includes building up and tearing down, both needed for progress.
2. The Human Level. On a human level though, we can look in a mirror to see ourselves in these god-like creatures. In this sense, I think the story maps nicely onto the Christian Creation of Tolkien's faith. We humans/Children of Iluvatar always have but two choices: to follow the will of Eru/God or disregard that will and exert our own. And I myself certainly believe that we all did start a good, and our paths end in goodness, and yet, along the way, as Gary Zukav might say, we can either choose the quick straight path of light, or the long and winding road of darkness.
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Message 10 of 44 in Discussion
From: CamelliaDanderfluff
Sent: 4/14/2002 12:10 PM
Alg, I totally agree. I read the responses from last to first, thinking ,"isn't anyone going to cite this phraase?" I should have known you'd use it as reference.
"...feigned even to himself at first" has stuck in my mind. He couldn't accept having this lust at first, so he pretends to be like everyone else. Eventually the desire for power overcomes his superego-(oops, Freudian!) It's good to know he attempted resistance, no matter how small.
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Message 11 of 44 in Discussion
From: Soleil
Sent: 4/14/2002 12:35 PM
my thoughts...
I believe Melkor was created 'good'. However, he was was given too much power and knowledge to remain so. We know he sought to increase the glory of the gifts he'd been given, but for himself, not for the enrichment
of all. He may have tried to convince himself, briefly, that he had the greater good at heart, but deep inside he knew that the only good he was concerned with was his own.
I think he saw himself setting up his own 'kingdom' so he created unrest. He created chaos and discord and then rallied his 'sheep' to follow him. To this point, his actions in Arda make me think of every terrorist/guerilla
leader through history who sought power for himself, not the common good or to glorify his creator.
I keep coming back to 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Evil is all consuming and will have it's way by whatever means available/necessary.
I've asked the same question as Algy...was it Ilùvatar's intent from before Melkor's creation that this was the route Melkor would take? As in Christian theology, was there a divine master plan before the first note sounded
and Melkor is falling into place as he was meant to? I think yes, and his purpose is, as Algy suggested, to bring balance to the world.
Soleil
PS: I had this written before I read the posts. You've all done a great job, and in my fumbling way, I'm in agreement. Cephas, you've highlighted all the phrases forming the foundation of my thoughts. Thanks.
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Message 12 of 44 in Discussion
From: Lady_Oiolaire
Sent: 4/14/2002 1:56 PM
I think that Tolkien's basis for villains was Power. if you go by examples you seem to come up with the massage that "power corrupts"
Melkor received too much power from Iluvitar. Sauron received too much power form Melkor. The ring supplied too much power to any who bore it.....
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Message 13 of 44 in Discussion
From: Lady_Oiolaire
Sent: 4/14/2002 3:43 PM
So was Melkor really 100% evil or just 98% bad? If he knew that he was evil then he could not have been totally evil. Like a crazy person who is REALLY crazy doesn't know it, but a person who THINKS they need help rarely needs it at all. (back to the relative evil thing, sorry)
In one of Piers Anthony's books a creature asks The Good Magician Humphrey "do i have a soul?" The magician told him that if he did not have a soul then he would not have worried weather he had one or not.
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Message 14 of 44 in Discussion
From: DaleAnn
Sent: 4/14/2002 3:44 PM
"He made first the Ainur....that were the offspring of his thought." "And thou, Melkor shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me."
Could we all be assuming that Iluvatar is "all good"? He made Melkor from his thought, and could be the source of Melkor's pride and greed.
In one of Tolkien's letters he stated that Sauron was as close to absolute evil as he could get. Tolkien did not believe in absolute evil. So, (sorry, Megn1) Melkor, along with Orcs, could have had redemption.
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Message 15 of 44 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameVairë_Daystar
Sent: 4/14/2002 4:01 PM
I think the initial ill stemmed from his desire to bring into being Beings of his own. Then he started looking in the wrong place, and was lost. He had the greatest power and knowledge - why did he wish to make other Beings himself? Remember Aule had a similar desire, because he wished for children to teach. But of course Aule repented and was forgiven because of his humility.
Melkor could not create other life. Was this the only power denied him? Was it the simple selfish wish of a child for the one thing he couldn't have? In which case, maybe he was too powerful to start with, and like Lady Oiolaire says his power corrupted him as he sought more and more?
I think my opinion is that Melkor, being powerful, grew arrogant, and then selfish as he considered himself to be superior to the other Ainur. Then he became jealous of the power of Illuvator, by which stage he was no longer really rational. (Some people might insert some Oedipal psychology here, the flame imperishable being his mother, he sought to overpower his father and gain control of the life-giving force.) But Illuvator created Melkor, who only existed from Him and could never be greater, so jealousy lead to bitterness, hatred and rebellion... I don't think it was planned, but I do think it was allowed, and Illuvator was the one that gave him the power in the first place. And through evil, good things have come that would not otherwise. (And I know there's a quote about that somewhere.)
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Message 16 of 44 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameRobedMERLIN
Sent: 4/14/2002 4:19 PM
Lady Oilaire raises a good point.. power corrupts..and absolute power corrupts absolutely...........However i believe melkor's part in this bears a striking resemblance to biblical stories about how Satan came to be.EX-- a angel who wanted power to set himself even above god......Thus the power corrupted melkor , he was not happy , but wanted more......
I noticed alot of things but dont want to spoil it for first time readers.....i am enjoying all the posts..keep up the good work......ROBEDMERLIN
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Message 1 of 44 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 4/13/2002 9:01 PM
Melkor
I don’t think I’m giving anything away by saying that Melkor is the primary “bad guy” in this story. The primary clues to his personality are all in “Ainulindale.” So what is it, in him, that causes him to take the path he does? What is the source or origin of his “fall?” What can we learn about the nature of evil from the character of Melkor (as we have seen him thus far)?
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Message 2 of 44 in Discussion
From: Lady_Oiolaire
Sent: 4/13/2002 10:47 PM
I'm going to open up a can of worms....
Relative Evil!!! LOL
Melkor was not evil in the beginning, but became evil when he was left to his own devices. Like a child that will be good until he discovers that he has the ability to be disobedient.
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Message 3 of 44 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameLord_Algamesh
Sent: 4/13/2002 11:07 PM
One passage that really intrigues me about Melkor's intentions follows:
"But when the Ainur had beheld this habitation in a vision and had seen the Children of Ilùvatar arise therein, then many of the most mighty among them bent all their though and their desire towards that place. And of these Melkor was the chief, even as he was in the beginning the greatest of the Ainur who took part in the Music. And he feigned, even to himself at first, that he desired to go thither and order all things for the good of the Children of Ilùvatar, controlling the turmoils of the heat and the cold that had come to pass through them."
The words that I have highlighted in the above transcript seems to suggest that Melkor's thoughts were pure and good for some (probably) small measure of time. Possibly this Valar could have been saved at this crucial moment, which I find distantly reminescent to Gollum's self-struggle, by some undeveloped fortune through his brethren. Then again, maybe it was within Ilùvatar's thought that Melkor must travel the darker path to create balance in the world.
I have long pondered this entry ans I suppose there is no definitive answer.
Algamesh
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Message 4 of 44 in Discussion
From: Cephas
Sent: 4/14/2002 4:52 AM
With reference to Algamesh's recent post, I would like to give my two cents worth.
I believe Melkor began as good. After all, all the Valar were created from the thoughts of Illuvatar, the one god. Would something evil spring from the mind of one who is good? This allusion to a created being who started out good but ended evil has echoes in the Bible (fall of Lucifer), Norse mythology ( Loki). Many of Maiar, who began as good eventually ended up evil after following Melkor. Remember Sauron, the Balrogs?
My point? Nothing began as evil, all were designed to be good by Illuvatar..the thoughts of how Orcs came about suddenly flashed in my mind..could Melkor have been redeemed? I do believe that since an Orc Rehab exists somewhere, may he could.
Cephas
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Message 5 of 44 in Discussion
From: Azurite
Sent: 4/14/2002 9:06 AM
I think the fatal flaw in Melkor is ego. Tolkien makes the point that Aulë was very like him, but cared most for the things he created and liked to share his ideas and help others. Melkor thought of himself first, and wanted to control others, and wanted others to admire him while allowing him dominion. In other words, he's a personality out of control.
I don't think there is a point at which he could have been changed, once he had chosen this as his desire. Before that, it was of course a matter of choice. *Why* he made that choice isn't clear, except that in giving the Ainur free will, Iluvatar gave them the option of making the wrong choices, and Melkor made the wrong choices because those were the choices he wanted to make.
In other words, I don't see much relativism here.
Which makes me ask - if Melkor did change, if he did rehabilitate, what place for him would there be in the world of the Valar? Could they trust him again? (Ossë seems to have rehabilitated well enough, but his crimes were lesser and briefer.)
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Message 6 of 44 in Discussion
From: rivers
Sent: 4/14/2002 10:58 AM
I concur with Azurite I believe that Melkor wanted to be worshipped in the same way that Iluvatar was since he was the most powerful he should be unquestionably obeyed and revered above others. He was not a team player as he was arrogant and condescending. He never asked for nor offered advice or help, giving me the idea that the thoughts of others were beneath him as he was the master and they were his servants. A mind which works like that can see no other path other than his own and would probably feel that he was helping the others by subverting them to his ideas surely since the ideas were his own they must be correct because he was the most gifted and powerful. His natural instinct towards secrecy and dominion would naturally turn a bunch of honest hard working beings against him. Finally he was envious of the others especially Manwe due to the fact that he had usurped the place Melkor was naturally a perfect fit for. Finally after he was subverted and could no longer create his shame grew so great that he would destroy ME rather than have these lesser beings bear witness to his humiiation. IMHO
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Message 7 of 44 in Discussion
From: Stormrider
Sent: 4/14/2002 11:35 AM
I agree it was his Ego. He thought he was equal to Iluvatar and wanted everything his way. He had a power thing going right from the start, too.
Azurite and Rivers: You both explain it very well!
Iluvatar was a kinder "god" whereas Melkor would not be tolerant of his subjects as Iluvatar was.
Stormrider
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Message 8 of 44 in Discussion
From: Cephas
Sent: 4/14/2002 11:38 AM
Azurite, you are right. The biggest flaw seems to be his ego. However, Tolkien didn't just stop there. He went on to detail Melkor's other flaws which contributed to his evil nature.
In Ainulindale, it states, "..as the theme progressed, it came into the heart of Melkor to interweave matters of his own imagining that were not in accord with the theme of Illuvatar; for he sought therein to increase the power and the glory assigned to himself."
The first highlighted phrase revealed Melkor's state of mind. For indeed "matters of his own imaging" declares that he believes he has the power that, if not equal, is greater than that of Illuvatar. That is pride. It is also telling that he wanted " to have subjects and servants, and to be called Lord, and to be a master over other wills."
The following phrase " power and glory " strongly suggests that another of Melkor's flaws was his greed. He wanted to increase his stature, his power, when it was clearly stated that "..to Melkor..(is) given the greatest gift of power and knowledge...".
Yet, we see that there is more to come. "..for desire grew hot within him to bring Beings things of his own.." This is lust, a lust for the Flame Imperishable, a lust to create. With three of the most serious of the 7 deadly sins, we ponder over Melkor's fate and his eventual transformation into the Dark Lord.
Yet another, for when Illuvatar rebukes him, which he " ..was filled with shame, of which came secret anger.." Ah, wrath..another of the 7 deadly sins.
Sins aside, I do not ascribe to the notion of Melkor's inherent evil. Remember, "it came into the heart of Melkor..". The hint here is the verb "came". This apparent evil didn't have any inherent roots in Melkor, this evil "came" to him. Whence this evil came from, the Ainulindale does not say. But as Illuvatar remarked to Melkor that "no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in [him], nor can any alter the music in [his] despite." Even the music in the beginning had "no flaws". Melkor began having evil designs, he also influenced others to be like him.
Well, if Osse could humble himself and apologise why not Melkor? I think he could have given there's always an element of goodness in everyone,hence the fact that he wasn't completely evil.But for his pride, he wanted to be a "master over wills".
Just my thoughts.
Cephas
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Message 9 of 44 in Discussion
From: DaveGude
Sent: 4/14/2002 12:03 PM
I see this creation story working on two levels.
1. The Cosmos. Myth can explain the world of order/chaos we see by giving "personality" to natural forces. Thus, we have the wind and wheather depicted as a personality named Manwe, or fire and ice become the personality named Melkor, etc. So, OK Algamesh, in this regard your idea of the necessary of balance makes perfect sense. The natural order of things includes building up and tearing down, both needed for progress.
2. The Human Level. On a human level though, we can look in a mirror to see ourselves in these god-like creatures. In this sense, I think the story maps nicely onto the Christian Creation of Tolkien's faith. We humans/Children of Iluvatar always have but two choices: to follow the will of Eru/God or disregard that will and exert our own. And I myself certainly believe that we all did start a good, and our paths end in goodness, and yet, along the way, as Gary Zukav might say, we can either choose the quick straight path of light, or the long and winding road of darkness.
______________________________________________
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Message 10 of 44 in Discussion
From: CamelliaDanderfluff
Sent: 4/14/2002 12:10 PM
Alg, I totally agree. I read the responses from last to first, thinking ,"isn't anyone going to cite this phraase?" I should have known you'd use it as reference.
"...feigned even to himself at first" has stuck in my mind. He couldn't accept having this lust at first, so he pretends to be like everyone else. Eventually the desire for power overcomes his superego-(oops, Freudian!) It's good to know he attempted resistance, no matter how small.
______________________________________________
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Message 11 of 44 in Discussion
From: Soleil
Sent: 4/14/2002 12:35 PM
my thoughts...
I believe Melkor was created 'good'. However, he was was given too much power and knowledge to remain so. We know he sought to increase the glory of the gifts he'd been given, but for himself, not for the enrichment
of all. He may have tried to convince himself, briefly, that he had the greater good at heart, but deep inside he knew that the only good he was concerned with was his own.
I think he saw himself setting up his own 'kingdom' so he created unrest. He created chaos and discord and then rallied his 'sheep' to follow him. To this point, his actions in Arda make me think of every terrorist/guerilla
leader through history who sought power for himself, not the common good or to glorify his creator.
I keep coming back to 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Evil is all consuming and will have it's way by whatever means available/necessary.
I've asked the same question as Algy...was it Ilùvatar's intent from before Melkor's creation that this was the route Melkor would take? As in Christian theology, was there a divine master plan before the first note sounded
and Melkor is falling into place as he was meant to? I think yes, and his purpose is, as Algy suggested, to bring balance to the world.
Soleil
PS: I had this written before I read the posts. You've all done a great job, and in my fumbling way, I'm in agreement. Cephas, you've highlighted all the phrases forming the foundation of my thoughts. Thanks.
________________________________________________
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Message 12 of 44 in Discussion
From: Lady_Oiolaire
Sent: 4/14/2002 1:56 PM
I think that Tolkien's basis for villains was Power. if you go by examples you seem to come up with the massage that "power corrupts"
Melkor received too much power from Iluvitar. Sauron received too much power form Melkor. The ring supplied too much power to any who bore it.....
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Message 13 of 44 in Discussion
From: Lady_Oiolaire
Sent: 4/14/2002 3:43 PM
So was Melkor really 100% evil or just 98% bad? If he knew that he was evil then he could not have been totally evil. Like a crazy person who is REALLY crazy doesn't know it, but a person who THINKS they need help rarely needs it at all. (back to the relative evil thing, sorry)
In one of Piers Anthony's books a creature asks The Good Magician Humphrey "do i have a soul?" The magician told him that if he did not have a soul then he would not have worried weather he had one or not.
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Message 14 of 44 in Discussion
From: DaleAnn
Sent: 4/14/2002 3:44 PM
"He made first the Ainur....that were the offspring of his thought." "And thou, Melkor shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me."
Could we all be assuming that Iluvatar is "all good"? He made Melkor from his thought, and could be the source of Melkor's pride and greed.
In one of Tolkien's letters he stated that Sauron was as close to absolute evil as he could get. Tolkien did not believe in absolute evil. So, (sorry, Megn1) Melkor, along with Orcs, could have had redemption.
___________________________________________
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Message 15 of 44 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameVairë_Daystar
Sent: 4/14/2002 4:01 PM
I think the initial ill stemmed from his desire to bring into being Beings of his own. Then he started looking in the wrong place, and was lost. He had the greatest power and knowledge - why did he wish to make other Beings himself? Remember Aule had a similar desire, because he wished for children to teach. But of course Aule repented and was forgiven because of his humility.
Melkor could not create other life. Was this the only power denied him? Was it the simple selfish wish of a child for the one thing he couldn't have? In which case, maybe he was too powerful to start with, and like Lady Oiolaire says his power corrupted him as he sought more and more?
I think my opinion is that Melkor, being powerful, grew arrogant, and then selfish as he considered himself to be superior to the other Ainur. Then he became jealous of the power of Illuvator, by which stage he was no longer really rational. (Some people might insert some Oedipal psychology here, the flame imperishable being his mother, he sought to overpower his father and gain control of the life-giving force.) But Illuvator created Melkor, who only existed from Him and could never be greater, so jealousy lead to bitterness, hatred and rebellion... I don't think it was planned, but I do think it was allowed, and Illuvator was the one that gave him the power in the first place. And through evil, good things have come that would not otherwise. (And I know there's a quote about that somewhere.)
___________________________________________
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Message 16 of 44 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameRobedMERLIN
Sent: 4/14/2002 4:19 PM
Lady Oilaire raises a good point.. power corrupts..and absolute power corrupts absolutely...........However i believe melkor's part in this bears a striking resemblance to biblical stories about how Satan came to be.EX-- a angel who wanted power to set himself even above god......Thus the power corrupted melkor , he was not happy , but wanted more......
I noticed alot of things but dont want to spoil it for first time readers.....i am enjoying all the posts..keep up the good work......ROBEDMERLIN