Post by Andorinha on Jan 19, 2009 5:36:55 GMT -6
week four - Galadriel
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Message 1 of 9 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 5/4/2002 7:36 PM
Of all the people we have met in Sil, so far the only one we recognize from LOTR is Galadriel (except Olorin, but he doesn't really come into this story).
We saw her in Valinor as a young women. She choose to join with her kin when they left Valinor. She endured the terrible crossing of the ice of Helcaraxe. Now she is dwelling in Doriath, learning much from Melian, but avoiding direct answers to her questions.
What have we learned about Galadriel? Do these early glimpses of her fit with the Queen of Lothlorien that we know and love? How would you describe this young elven woman?
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Message 2 of 9 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameVairë_Daystar
Sent: 5/7/2002 5:07 PM
It's very interesting to read the section of Unfinished Tales dealing with Galadriel and Celeborn - it seems that their formative years went through a number of permutations. As the Silmarillion was published postumously (as was UT), it is difficult to know exactly which background Tolkein would eventually preferred and published. In one she argued with Feanor against the kinslaying, and in others her departure was planned entirely separately from that of the Noldor.
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Message 3 of 9 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 5/7/2002 9:19 PM
Thanks for that input. I'm slowly being convinced that I've got to read "Unfinished Tales." Sounds like there's lots of good stuff there. I think the title always threw me - I didn't want to read the work he never completed...
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Message 4 of 9 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 5/9/2002 5:53 PM
It seems that even in the first part of her life Galadriel is ambitious. I believe it mentions her "wishing for her own realm to order as she might." Quite a change from the powerful yet sorrowful figure she is in the Triology. Upon reading the tale of her and Celeborn in the UT was dissapointed that not more was mentioned about the crossing of the Helccaraxe. This is a part of the Tale I think Tolkien negelected and could have given us a bit more about the Noldor's valar and courage in that crossing.Granted the whole story is painful to read and I find myself with tears welling up again as I recall the burning at Losgar. But this emotion that is inspired is a testiment to Tolkien's skill. I am only musing on how great a tale of The March of the People of Fingolfin would be.
Namarie Eldameldor,
Iarwain
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Message 5 of 9 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 5/9/2002 9:51 PM
Iarwain,
While I agree with you, that the story of the crossing of the Helcaraxe is one of those glimpses of depth that makes Tolkien so appealing, I'm not sure it is a story that can be told. Not unless you did it like "The Old Man and the Sea" (I think that's the story...) where the battle to the top of each individual wave is described. Each step, each stage of that journey was full of peril, adventure, and loss. It would be long, weary work. And deadly heavy to read. I think I am glad Tolkien left it as a glimpse, and didn't try to describe it in greater detail.
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Message 6 of 9 in Discussion
From: Karo6
Sent: 5/10/2002 12:19 PM
The following data concerning the peronality of Galadriel is not from the Silmarillion but the short, and easily overlooked Letter #348. It reveals a facet of this Elven Queen' personallity that re-inforces her active role in the affairs of Arda:
"Galadriel, like all the other names of elvish persons in The Lord of the Rings, is an invention of my own. It is in Sindarin form (see Appendices E and F) and means 'Maiden crowned with gleaming hair'. It is a secondary name given to her in her youth in the far past because she had long hair which glistened like gold but was also shot with silver. She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats."
Galadriel as field and track star?
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Message 7 of 9 in Discussion
From: sparrow
Sent: 5/11/2002 10:13 AM
". . .even in the first part of her life Galadriel is ambitious." Had she allowed this ambition to dominate her, she might have become the beautiful and terrible queen whom all would love and despair (a female Morgoth!). Fortunately, she did not. Was the powerful yet sorrowful figure quite a change from the young, ambitious Galadriel? I am still pondering the limited information I have about Galadriel's character. I doubt her ambition ever left her, but instead was tempered by age, wisdom, and self-restraint. She gracefully accepted a declining role for herself and acquiesced in the coming dominance of hobbits and men.
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Message 8 of 9 in Discussion
From: CrazierGilwen
Sent: 5/11/2002 2:10 PM
Vaire,
I agree that the section of UT telling of Galadriel and Celeborn is fascinating, but having said that it seems to me that it is misleading in certain aspects.
The narrative is not complete and many amendments were made. This story was not written once, but exists in several conflicting forms, often ambiguous in nature. For example, the text in one narration claims that Galadriel and Celeborn had a son, Amroth he was named. Yet, other narratives contradict this declaring that Amroth was the son of the King of Lothlorien. (His name I don't recall, but it could be Amidin, or something to that effect.)
Another discrepency between texts is the fact that in earlier texts there was no mention of Galadriel's ban from returning to the West. Later texts, I believe, were altered in order to introduce this idea.
As you mentioned Vaire, " In one she argued with Feanor against the kinslaying, and in others her departure was planned entirely separately from that of the Noldor."
This introduces another interesting point in relation to the tale of Galadriel and Celeborn. In one text Celeborn was of the Teleri, kin to Thingol. In another he dwelt at the haven in the West where he meets Galadriel.
Despite these very conflicting narratives, Unfinished Tales is well worth the read and answers many questions as to the background and origins of our favourite characters.
~Gilwen~
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Message 9 of 9 in Discussion
Sent: 11/7/2002 10:07 AM
This message has been deleted by the author.
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Reply
Message 1 of 9 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 5/4/2002 7:36 PM
Of all the people we have met in Sil, so far the only one we recognize from LOTR is Galadriel (except Olorin, but he doesn't really come into this story).
We saw her in Valinor as a young women. She choose to join with her kin when they left Valinor. She endured the terrible crossing of the ice of Helcaraxe. Now she is dwelling in Doriath, learning much from Melian, but avoiding direct answers to her questions.
What have we learned about Galadriel? Do these early glimpses of her fit with the Queen of Lothlorien that we know and love? How would you describe this young elven woman?
______________________________________________
Reply
Message 2 of 9 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameVairë_Daystar
Sent: 5/7/2002 5:07 PM
It's very interesting to read the section of Unfinished Tales dealing with Galadriel and Celeborn - it seems that their formative years went through a number of permutations. As the Silmarillion was published postumously (as was UT), it is difficult to know exactly which background Tolkein would eventually preferred and published. In one she argued with Feanor against the kinslaying, and in others her departure was planned entirely separately from that of the Noldor.
________________________________________________
Reply
Message 3 of 9 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 5/7/2002 9:19 PM
Thanks for that input. I'm slowly being convinced that I've got to read "Unfinished Tales." Sounds like there's lots of good stuff there. I think the title always threw me - I didn't want to read the work he never completed...
___________________________________________________
Reply
Message 4 of 9 in Discussion
From: MSN NicknameIarwainBen-adar1
Sent: 5/9/2002 5:53 PM
It seems that even in the first part of her life Galadriel is ambitious. I believe it mentions her "wishing for her own realm to order as she might." Quite a change from the powerful yet sorrowful figure she is in the Triology. Upon reading the tale of her and Celeborn in the UT was dissapointed that not more was mentioned about the crossing of the Helccaraxe. This is a part of the Tale I think Tolkien negelected and could have given us a bit more about the Noldor's valar and courage in that crossing.Granted the whole story is painful to read and I find myself with tears welling up again as I recall the burning at Losgar. But this emotion that is inspired is a testiment to Tolkien's skill. I am only musing on how great a tale of The March of the People of Fingolfin would be.
Namarie Eldameldor,
Iarwain
__________________________________________________
Reply
Message 5 of 9 in Discussion
From: megn1
Sent: 5/9/2002 9:51 PM
Iarwain,
While I agree with you, that the story of the crossing of the Helcaraxe is one of those glimpses of depth that makes Tolkien so appealing, I'm not sure it is a story that can be told. Not unless you did it like "The Old Man and the Sea" (I think that's the story...) where the battle to the top of each individual wave is described. Each step, each stage of that journey was full of peril, adventure, and loss. It would be long, weary work. And deadly heavy to read. I think I am glad Tolkien left it as a glimpse, and didn't try to describe it in greater detail.
______________________________________________
Reply
Message 6 of 9 in Discussion
From: Karo6
Sent: 5/10/2002 12:19 PM
The following data concerning the peronality of Galadriel is not from the Silmarillion but the short, and easily overlooked Letter #348. It reveals a facet of this Elven Queen' personallity that re-inforces her active role in the affairs of Arda:
"Galadriel, like all the other names of elvish persons in The Lord of the Rings, is an invention of my own. It is in Sindarin form (see Appendices E and F) and means 'Maiden crowned with gleaming hair'. It is a secondary name given to her in her youth in the far past because she had long hair which glistened like gold but was also shot with silver. She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats."
Galadriel as field and track star?
_____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 7 of 9 in Discussion
From: sparrow
Sent: 5/11/2002 10:13 AM
". . .even in the first part of her life Galadriel is ambitious." Had she allowed this ambition to dominate her, she might have become the beautiful and terrible queen whom all would love and despair (a female Morgoth!). Fortunately, she did not. Was the powerful yet sorrowful figure quite a change from the young, ambitious Galadriel? I am still pondering the limited information I have about Galadriel's character. I doubt her ambition ever left her, but instead was tempered by age, wisdom, and self-restraint. She gracefully accepted a declining role for herself and acquiesced in the coming dominance of hobbits and men.
_________________________________________________
Reply
Message 8 of 9 in Discussion
From: CrazierGilwen
Sent: 5/11/2002 2:10 PM
Vaire,
I agree that the section of UT telling of Galadriel and Celeborn is fascinating, but having said that it seems to me that it is misleading in certain aspects.
The narrative is not complete and many amendments were made. This story was not written once, but exists in several conflicting forms, often ambiguous in nature. For example, the text in one narration claims that Galadriel and Celeborn had a son, Amroth he was named. Yet, other narratives contradict this declaring that Amroth was the son of the King of Lothlorien. (His name I don't recall, but it could be Amidin, or something to that effect.)
Another discrepency between texts is the fact that in earlier texts there was no mention of Galadriel's ban from returning to the West. Later texts, I believe, were altered in order to introduce this idea.
As you mentioned Vaire, " In one she argued with Feanor against the kinslaying, and in others her departure was planned entirely separately from that of the Noldor."
This introduces another interesting point in relation to the tale of Galadriel and Celeborn. In one text Celeborn was of the Teleri, kin to Thingol. In another he dwelt at the haven in the West where he meets Galadriel.
Despite these very conflicting narratives, Unfinished Tales is well worth the read and answers many questions as to the background and origins of our favourite characters.
~Gilwen~
_____________________________________________________
Reply
Message 9 of 9 in Discussion
Sent: 11/7/2002 10:07 AM
This message has been deleted by the author.