Post by MajahTR on Jan 20, 2009 7:39:05 GMT -6
Gandalf reads from the Book of Mazarbul. I can't help but think that Tolkien was giving his readers a taste of what it was like to read manuscripts that had faced all sorts of damage. Translation and interpretation must have been difficult at times. Little did Tolkien realize that his own manuscripts are as difficult to work with or even more so than the Anglo-Saxon he himself read and interpreted.
The drums are heard over and over: Doom, Doom. How does this auditory description affect you? I get a feeling of deeper and deeper dread throughout.
I find it very ironic that spending the time reading the Book of Mazarbul is what causes them to be trapped in the same way as the Dwarves. But, as Gandalf so aptly points out, the Dwarves did not have Gandalf with them. He is both the cause and saving grace. The company fights the Cave troll and Orcs within the Chamber of Mazarbul. Merry and Pippin are only mentioned in the escape, but not in the battle though some deeds of the others are. Frodo and Sam act very bravely, but what were the other Hobbits doing?
I have often wondered why Gandalf did not know from the beginning that he was facing a Balrog. It takes Legolas to name the creature. I have always assumed that Legolas was not born in the First Age or even during the early Second Age because he does not seem widely traveled. Does anyone have any ideas about this?
Tolkien gives very little description to the Balrog, hardly more than shadow and fire. But, this non depiction is a powerful device. We are left with our imagination. The horror of the Balrog is far greater this way. But, since I am a visual person, this lack of description left me somewhat in the dark about the Balrog. I remember seeing an illustration and then the light turned on.
Speaking of light, Gandalf is of light and fire; the Balrog of shadow and fire. At this point in the story, we do not know that Gandalf possesses the Ring Narya. He calls himself "a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor" (Sindarin for Sun).
Gandalf is lost. There is a tremendous thread that deserves another look on the LotR board. It is called "Gandalf's Death". I bumped it back to the top of the thread list. Do try to take a look at it.(Maj note* I have added "Gandalf's Death" thread to this study board.)
We know that underground journeys are symbolic for death and rebirth. Gandalf is an obvious example. How about the others? How are they "reborn" here?
The company manages to get out of Moria in the early afternoon. Still the Doom, doom of the drums can be heard for awhile…
DA
Well, I love this section of the Tales, fast paced, exciting. But one thing aways bugged me, Balin's tomb. Now granted the runes were Moria runes, but shouldn't have not been written in just runes, shouldn't it have been written in Khuzdul, or Dwarvish? I can understand the book not written in Khuzdul, as it was a record which they might want to share with others, and perhaps the same goes for the the tomb but in my mind Dwarves are proud of their creations, I think if I were a Dwarf King to be entombed I would want my headstone written in my native tongue.
Just a little contra to get the juices flowing.
Namárië,
Iarwain
Iarwain,
It's been years since I transcribed those runes, but my recollection is that when I did it appeared that part was written in Dwarvish, and part in Common Tongue. It appears to say, twice, Balin, son of Fundin, Lord of Moria. Since most of it is names, it is the same both times.
Tolkien created at least one burned page of the Book of Marzubul, written in runes, then scorched and bloodied. He put a lot of work into it, and really wanted it duplicated in editions of the Two Towers, peferably at the point in the story where they found it. Cost was prohibitive. There are several references to it in the Letters.
That page has been reproduced since, in some volume or other. Anyone know where we can see it?
DA,
When reading LOTR aloud to my daughter, this chapter was one of my favorite parts. I realized how dramatically it is written. The Doom, Doom, of the drum had my daughter quivering under her blankets. I read them slowly and very deeply. (She said my drums were more scary than the movie's!) The sentences become shorter and more intense. It is written to cause your hair to stand on end!
megn1
O.k. I got out my books, looked at the chart in the appendix, and here's what the tombstone transcribes as:
I assume that the first three lines are dwarvish, with the last line, in smaller print, giving the common tongue translation.
The drums are heard over and over: Doom, Doom. How does this auditory description affect you? I get a feeling of deeper and deeper dread throughout.
I find it very ironic that spending the time reading the Book of Mazarbul is what causes them to be trapped in the same way as the Dwarves. But, as Gandalf so aptly points out, the Dwarves did not have Gandalf with them. He is both the cause and saving grace. The company fights the Cave troll and Orcs within the Chamber of Mazarbul. Merry and Pippin are only mentioned in the escape, but not in the battle though some deeds of the others are. Frodo and Sam act very bravely, but what were the other Hobbits doing?
I have often wondered why Gandalf did not know from the beginning that he was facing a Balrog. It takes Legolas to name the creature. I have always assumed that Legolas was not born in the First Age or even during the early Second Age because he does not seem widely traveled. Does anyone have any ideas about this?
Tolkien gives very little description to the Balrog, hardly more than shadow and fire. But, this non depiction is a powerful device. We are left with our imagination. The horror of the Balrog is far greater this way. But, since I am a visual person, this lack of description left me somewhat in the dark about the Balrog. I remember seeing an illustration and then the light turned on.
Speaking of light, Gandalf is of light and fire; the Balrog of shadow and fire. At this point in the story, we do not know that Gandalf possesses the Ring Narya. He calls himself "a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor" (Sindarin for Sun).
Gandalf is lost. There is a tremendous thread that deserves another look on the LotR board. It is called "Gandalf's Death". I bumped it back to the top of the thread list. Do try to take a look at it.(Maj note* I have added "Gandalf's Death" thread to this study board.)
We know that underground journeys are symbolic for death and rebirth. Gandalf is an obvious example. How about the others? How are they "reborn" here?
The company manages to get out of Moria in the early afternoon. Still the Doom, doom of the drums can be heard for awhile…
DA
Well, I love this section of the Tales, fast paced, exciting. But one thing aways bugged me, Balin's tomb. Now granted the runes were Moria runes, but shouldn't have not been written in just runes, shouldn't it have been written in Khuzdul, or Dwarvish? I can understand the book not written in Khuzdul, as it was a record which they might want to share with others, and perhaps the same goes for the the tomb but in my mind Dwarves are proud of their creations, I think if I were a Dwarf King to be entombed I would want my headstone written in my native tongue.
Just a little contra to get the juices flowing.
Namárië,
Iarwain
Iarwain,
It's been years since I transcribed those runes, but my recollection is that when I did it appeared that part was written in Dwarvish, and part in Common Tongue. It appears to say, twice, Balin, son of Fundin, Lord of Moria. Since most of it is names, it is the same both times.
Tolkien created at least one burned page of the Book of Marzubul, written in runes, then scorched and bloodied. He put a lot of work into it, and really wanted it duplicated in editions of the Two Towers, peferably at the point in the story where they found it. Cost was prohibitive. There are several references to it in the Letters.
That page has been reproduced since, in some volume or other. Anyone know where we can see it?
DA,
When reading LOTR aloud to my daughter, this chapter was one of my favorite parts. I realized how dramatically it is written. The Doom, Doom, of the drum had my daughter quivering under her blankets. I read them slowly and very deeply. (She said my drums were more scary than the movie's!) The sentences become shorter and more intense. It is written to cause your hair to stand on end!
megn1
O.k. I got out my books, looked at the chart in the appendix, and here's what the tombstone transcribes as:
BALIN
FUNDINUL
UZBADKHAZADDUMU
BALINSONOFFUNDINLORDOFMORIA
FUNDINUL
UZBADKHAZADDUMU
BALINSONOFFUNDINLORDOFMORIA
I assume that the first three lines are dwarvish, with the last line, in smaller print, giving the common tongue translation.