Post by MajahTR on Jan 20, 2009 7:44:22 GMT -6
This is Legolas's chapter, a mirror image to Gimli's: A Journey in the Dark. Lothlorien is seen from afar. Legolas describes the woods and the changing seasons as he had heard in the songs of Mirkwood. Gimli, (in The Ring Goes South) recognized the mountains Cathedras and the others because he had seen them from a distance. Neither one had been to the greatest of their respective races regions.
The pale points of light and patter of feet are all we know of Gollum as yet. The sightings and descriptions increase as Tolkien builds the suspense. Though we as readers can guess that it is Gollum following, we do not know until Frodo finds out.
Boromir has very little "page time" in this chapter. He carries either Sam or Frodo a short way. The only other mention is his objection for going through Lorien. He is conspicuous by his absence. Perhaps, the loss of Gandalf (a major foe in using the Ring as a weapon) has triggered the coming "madness" for the Ring.
I could point out all the similarities that I have found between this chapter and the Journey in the Dark chapter (including some of The Ring Goes South chapter, too.) But, instead I'll leave some for you to post about if you find it interesting. In both chapters, Frodo feels the waters against his feet. The creek water is unwholesome and the rocks are greasy with slime. The Nimrodel, on the other hand, washed away the stain of travel and weariness.
As a cradle Catholic, the word "stain" is deeply associated with the word "sin". If I had a penny for every time I heard those words strung together "the stain of sin", I'd be rich. So, the water here has a baptismal connection. And when taken together with its counterpart in Chapter 4, this water is a sign of hope that Lothlorien will be a haven even though Boromir does not wish to enter and Haldir and his brothers challenge the fellowship a bit later.
Legolas sings the "Song of Amroth", which is what it is called in the Index of RotK, though here in the book he states it is a song of Nimrodel. The only reference in the Appendices that I could find to the events Legolas refers to is in Appendix B, The Tale of Years. It states there that the Balrog was awakened in 1980TA. Nimrodel and Amroth, along with many Silvan Elves, flee in 1981TA. Nimrodel and Amroth were lost. Fortunately, Unfinished Tales contain numerous references to them if you would like to find out more.
Just as Gimli's Song of Durin starts out happily and ends sadly, so does Legolas's Song of Amroth. Each of these characters refuses to speak for awhile afterwards. One thing I never noticed before is something in the last verse. I never realized that there was communication between the Elves of The Blessed Realm and those Middle Earth as this verse implies, especially as late as after 1981TA.
Because of the reference in The Tale of Years we know that the evil Legolas and Gimli speak of is none other than the Balrog. Since this occurred in 1980TA and the Istari appeared around 1000TA, I am even more mystified that Gandalf did not know about the Balrog. And for some reason, I thought the awakening of the Balrog and the loss of Nimrodel and Amroth were further back in history.
At the time that I decided to be discussion leader for this study, my son and I had been listening to FotR as I drove him to and fro from work. We were on this chapter. So, even as we were listening and moving on, I started re-reading FotR from the beginning. I was struck by the similarities in the attitude of the Hobbits in the Shire with that of the Elves of Lorien. Each of these peoples had closed in on themselves and protected their borders from outsiders. Even Haldir's wonderment that any Hobbits still dwelt in Middle earth and that they don't look evil has its counterpart in the Hobbit distrust and fear of Elves (from the Prologue).
The theme of suspicion is most strongly felt in the section where the fellowship must be blindfolded. However, by the same token the "fellowship" of the Fellowship is strengthened since all fare alike. So even within a section that points out differences, the equality among the races is exemplified by their willingness to share in the blindfolding of Gimli.
The word "stain" reappears in the description of Lorien. "No blemish, no sickness or deformity could be seen in anything that grew upon the earth. On the land of Lorien there was no stain."
Frodo knows that he crossed into the world of Fairie. "..it seemed to him that he had stepped over a bridge of time into a corner of the Elder Days." The difference between Rivendell and Lorien was that in Rivendell the ancient days were in memory. In Lorien, they still lived. Within the land of Fantasy called Middle-earth, here is the land of fantasy. "..Frodo stood awhile still lost in wonder. It seemed to him that he had stepped through a high window that looked on a vanished world." Tolkien's description of Lothlorien is breathtaking. It is no wonder that according to Letters, these pages are among Tolkien's favorite passages. They move me to tears and I can read them over and over again with the same feeling: a great longing to see Lothlorien in person.
The last sentence is a haunting one. "And taking Frodo's hand in his, he [Aragorn] left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as living man."
Any thoughts?
DA
Funny thing happened to my spell-check. It did not notify me that I spelt Caradhras wrong. Thaks Pearl for asking for clarification. ---DA
Now that you point it out I do see the similarities...
Water under foot... Song... etc.
Contrasts are appearent - Moria is wholly stained whereas Lothlorien is not stained.
Now this chapter leads to more questions than answers...
Now Elronds sons set out on an errand in the Ring Goes South that leads them to the river Silverlode. Is these the message spoken of from Elrond in this chapter?
Legolas is careful to point out the 8th member is a dwarf knowing that he will not be as welcomed as the rest. Aragorn is quick to come up with a solution, "We will all be blindfold, even Legolas." - Great leadership here. We all will share this burden... I see the making of a great leader here... willing to be both servant and lead.
Lothlorien is surreal. Most of the fellowship cannot comprehend what they see. This is my favorite place in ME. I would want to dwell there. Anyone with me on this one?
I do have a question if any of you have an answer concerning the following passage:
"Dol Guldur where long the hidden Enemy had his dwelling. we fear it is inhabited , and with power sevenfold." (It does reminds me of the parable Jesus told of a spirit cast out of a man... but that man did nothing to fill it with "good"... so seven evil spirits each more evil than the first came in and inhabited the man again.) If anyone wants to know, I'll look it up - I am sure it is in the Gospel of Matthew.
I know Sauron was there for many years, but now that he is back in Mordor, what are the 7X that inhabit it now?
Luthien (Sarah)
The pale points of light and patter of feet are all we know of Gollum as yet. The sightings and descriptions increase as Tolkien builds the suspense. Though we as readers can guess that it is Gollum following, we do not know until Frodo finds out.
Boromir has very little "page time" in this chapter. He carries either Sam or Frodo a short way. The only other mention is his objection for going through Lorien. He is conspicuous by his absence. Perhaps, the loss of Gandalf (a major foe in using the Ring as a weapon) has triggered the coming "madness" for the Ring.
I could point out all the similarities that I have found between this chapter and the Journey in the Dark chapter (including some of The Ring Goes South chapter, too.) But, instead I'll leave some for you to post about if you find it interesting. In both chapters, Frodo feels the waters against his feet. The creek water is unwholesome and the rocks are greasy with slime. The Nimrodel, on the other hand, washed away the stain of travel and weariness.
As a cradle Catholic, the word "stain" is deeply associated with the word "sin". If I had a penny for every time I heard those words strung together "the stain of sin", I'd be rich. So, the water here has a baptismal connection. And when taken together with its counterpart in Chapter 4, this water is a sign of hope that Lothlorien will be a haven even though Boromir does not wish to enter and Haldir and his brothers challenge the fellowship a bit later.
Legolas sings the "Song of Amroth", which is what it is called in the Index of RotK, though here in the book he states it is a song of Nimrodel. The only reference in the Appendices that I could find to the events Legolas refers to is in Appendix B, The Tale of Years. It states there that the Balrog was awakened in 1980TA. Nimrodel and Amroth, along with many Silvan Elves, flee in 1981TA. Nimrodel and Amroth were lost. Fortunately, Unfinished Tales contain numerous references to them if you would like to find out more.
Just as Gimli's Song of Durin starts out happily and ends sadly, so does Legolas's Song of Amroth. Each of these characters refuses to speak for awhile afterwards. One thing I never noticed before is something in the last verse. I never realized that there was communication between the Elves of The Blessed Realm and those Middle Earth as this verse implies, especially as late as after 1981TA.
Because of the reference in The Tale of Years we know that the evil Legolas and Gimli speak of is none other than the Balrog. Since this occurred in 1980TA and the Istari appeared around 1000TA, I am even more mystified that Gandalf did not know about the Balrog. And for some reason, I thought the awakening of the Balrog and the loss of Nimrodel and Amroth were further back in history.
At the time that I decided to be discussion leader for this study, my son and I had been listening to FotR as I drove him to and fro from work. We were on this chapter. So, even as we were listening and moving on, I started re-reading FotR from the beginning. I was struck by the similarities in the attitude of the Hobbits in the Shire with that of the Elves of Lorien. Each of these peoples had closed in on themselves and protected their borders from outsiders. Even Haldir's wonderment that any Hobbits still dwelt in Middle earth and that they don't look evil has its counterpart in the Hobbit distrust and fear of Elves (from the Prologue).
The theme of suspicion is most strongly felt in the section where the fellowship must be blindfolded. However, by the same token the "fellowship" of the Fellowship is strengthened since all fare alike. So even within a section that points out differences, the equality among the races is exemplified by their willingness to share in the blindfolding of Gimli.
The word "stain" reappears in the description of Lorien. "No blemish, no sickness or deformity could be seen in anything that grew upon the earth. On the land of Lorien there was no stain."
Frodo knows that he crossed into the world of Fairie. "..it seemed to him that he had stepped over a bridge of time into a corner of the Elder Days." The difference between Rivendell and Lorien was that in Rivendell the ancient days were in memory. In Lorien, they still lived. Within the land of Fantasy called Middle-earth, here is the land of fantasy. "..Frodo stood awhile still lost in wonder. It seemed to him that he had stepped through a high window that looked on a vanished world." Tolkien's description of Lothlorien is breathtaking. It is no wonder that according to Letters, these pages are among Tolkien's favorite passages. They move me to tears and I can read them over and over again with the same feeling: a great longing to see Lothlorien in person.
The last sentence is a haunting one. "And taking Frodo's hand in his, he [Aragorn] left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as living man."
Any thoughts?
DA
Funny thing happened to my spell-check. It did not notify me that I spelt Caradhras wrong. Thaks Pearl for asking for clarification. ---DA
Now that you point it out I do see the similarities...
Water under foot... Song... etc.
Contrasts are appearent - Moria is wholly stained whereas Lothlorien is not stained.
Now this chapter leads to more questions than answers...
Now Elronds sons set out on an errand in the Ring Goes South that leads them to the river Silverlode. Is these the message spoken of from Elrond in this chapter?
Legolas is careful to point out the 8th member is a dwarf knowing that he will not be as welcomed as the rest. Aragorn is quick to come up with a solution, "We will all be blindfold, even Legolas." - Great leadership here. We all will share this burden... I see the making of a great leader here... willing to be both servant and lead.
Lothlorien is surreal. Most of the fellowship cannot comprehend what they see. This is my favorite place in ME. I would want to dwell there. Anyone with me on this one?
I do have a question if any of you have an answer concerning the following passage:
"Dol Guldur where long the hidden Enemy had his dwelling. we fear it is inhabited , and with power sevenfold." (It does reminds me of the parable Jesus told of a spirit cast out of a man... but that man did nothing to fill it with "good"... so seven evil spirits each more evil than the first came in and inhabited the man again.) If anyone wants to know, I'll look it up - I am sure it is in the Gospel of Matthew.
I know Sauron was there for many years, but now that he is back in Mordor, what are the 7X that inhabit it now?
Luthien (Sarah)