Post by Stormrider on Jan 23, 2009 6:54:48 GMT -6
From: Lord_Algamesh (Original Message) Sent: 11/6/2002 11:46 PM
In Chapter Nine, Merry states the following concerning Huorns:
"There is a great power in them, and they seem able to wrap themselves in shadow: it is very difficult to see them moving."
This sort of ability has been reserved up to this point for the forces of evil. The Huorns are very peculiar entities to begin with and this attribute adds to their mysterious existence. In your opinion, why was it important for Tolkien to present them in this manner with this strange ability? What is the source of this "shadowing": magical, optical illusion, etc.?
* * *
From: IarwainBen-adar1 Sent: 11/7/2002 11:36 AM
I think the source of this "feeling" is one many might experiance in the woods should they travel in alone. A mysterious presence, a watchful malice, or an awarness. It's cloaked within shadow because we do not preceive it. Tolkien uses these expressions with almost every forest we journey through within his tales. I believe not so much that the Huorns are any more important here, but perhaps they are a constant, existing in all forests of Middle-earth, and casting that "feeling" towards any whom pass through.
I think Treebeard expressed it best when he said "I am not on any one side, as no one is completely on my side.'' for me this qoute is apt to express the feelings of the forest he expresses. They do not have complete malace for those whom go on two legs, but they have no love for them either. They have witnessed the destruction caused by the two legged, and only await more to occur so that they may react. A sort of seething, or simmering which if kindled (as in the case of Saurman) which would become a boiling torrent.
In fact if I recall correctly the only forest not mentioned to have a treeish presence is Lothlorien. But in that case the phrase: "No evil enters the Golden Wood unless one brings with themselves" is, I think, the paramount statement of all the forest of Middle-earth.
But again we should of course remember there are no absolutes and Old Man Willow is the quintessence of Treebeards description of black hearted trees. I just feel that on a whole the forest were not meant to be expressed as evil by Tolkien, but more to the point perilous.
Namárië,
Iarwain
* * *
From: Storrmrider Sent: 11/14/2002 3:38 PM
I think that this is an attempt to keep the Huorns more mysterious. Their ability to wrap themselves in shadow and make it difficult to see them move gives us the sense that they are very powerful, quiet, and stealthy--not something you want to mess with!
The Huorns are not as agile as the Ents because they are more treelike in nature. The shadowy movement adds to the mystery of how a treelike being can move at all. It is as if they are hiding behind the shadow and sneaking up on their prey. One minute they are not there and the next ***poof*** they are right there! It throws their victims off guard and confuses them.
* * *
From: LovesBeren Sent: 12/29/2002 11:48 PM
Are Huorns more Elf-like than Men-like?
Out on a limb...
Luthien (Sarah)
* * *
From: IarwainBen-adar1 Sent: 1/6/2003 10:37 AM
Luthien,
No I really don't think Hurons are anything like a bi-pedal speices at all. If you know Ents, and you know trees, then Huorns fall somewhere in between the two. Neither Human or Elf.
Trees, Ents, and Huorns are not even of the Kelvar (Q) "Quick Ones" whose greatest of this Order is the Eagles (Valar, Maiar, Elf, Man, ect.ect.being in their own classes). Trees, Ents, and Huorns belong to the Olvar (Q) "Growing Things with Roots to the Earth" Ents being the greatest of this order. Yes, Tolkien has even classified his plants and animals into hierarchies.LOL!
Namárië,
Iarwain
* * *
From: LovesBeren Sent: 1/28/2003 9:37 PM
Iawain Ben-adar,
I was amusing myself ...
If treebeard said that "Ents are more like Elves: less interested in themselves than Men are, and better at getting inside other things. And yet again Ents are more like Men, more changeable than Elves are, and quicker at taking the colour of the outside, you might say."
The thread was discussing The Hourns "nature," but I was a bit perplexed, so I threw out a nonsense response...
sorry... but you did answer my question.
Luthien (Sarah)
In Chapter Nine, Merry states the following concerning Huorns:
"There is a great power in them, and they seem able to wrap themselves in shadow: it is very difficult to see them moving."
This sort of ability has been reserved up to this point for the forces of evil. The Huorns are very peculiar entities to begin with and this attribute adds to their mysterious existence. In your opinion, why was it important for Tolkien to present them in this manner with this strange ability? What is the source of this "shadowing": magical, optical illusion, etc.?
* * *
From: IarwainBen-adar1 Sent: 11/7/2002 11:36 AM
I think the source of this "feeling" is one many might experiance in the woods should they travel in alone. A mysterious presence, a watchful malice, or an awarness. It's cloaked within shadow because we do not preceive it. Tolkien uses these expressions with almost every forest we journey through within his tales. I believe not so much that the Huorns are any more important here, but perhaps they are a constant, existing in all forests of Middle-earth, and casting that "feeling" towards any whom pass through.
I think Treebeard expressed it best when he said "I am not on any one side, as no one is completely on my side.'' for me this qoute is apt to express the feelings of the forest he expresses. They do not have complete malace for those whom go on two legs, but they have no love for them either. They have witnessed the destruction caused by the two legged, and only await more to occur so that they may react. A sort of seething, or simmering which if kindled (as in the case of Saurman) which would become a boiling torrent.
In fact if I recall correctly the only forest not mentioned to have a treeish presence is Lothlorien. But in that case the phrase: "No evil enters the Golden Wood unless one brings with themselves" is, I think, the paramount statement of all the forest of Middle-earth.
But again we should of course remember there are no absolutes and Old Man Willow is the quintessence of Treebeards description of black hearted trees. I just feel that on a whole the forest were not meant to be expressed as evil by Tolkien, but more to the point perilous.
Namárië,
Iarwain
* * *
From: Storrmrider Sent: 11/14/2002 3:38 PM
I think that this is an attempt to keep the Huorns more mysterious. Their ability to wrap themselves in shadow and make it difficult to see them move gives us the sense that they are very powerful, quiet, and stealthy--not something you want to mess with!
The Huorns are not as agile as the Ents because they are more treelike in nature. The shadowy movement adds to the mystery of how a treelike being can move at all. It is as if they are hiding behind the shadow and sneaking up on their prey. One minute they are not there and the next ***poof*** they are right there! It throws their victims off guard and confuses them.
* * *
From: LovesBeren Sent: 12/29/2002 11:48 PM
Are Huorns more Elf-like than Men-like?
Out on a limb...
Luthien (Sarah)
* * *
From: IarwainBen-adar1 Sent: 1/6/2003 10:37 AM
Luthien,
No I really don't think Hurons are anything like a bi-pedal speices at all. If you know Ents, and you know trees, then Huorns fall somewhere in between the two. Neither Human or Elf.
Trees, Ents, and Huorns are not even of the Kelvar (Q) "Quick Ones" whose greatest of this Order is the Eagles (Valar, Maiar, Elf, Man, ect.ect.being in their own classes). Trees, Ents, and Huorns belong to the Olvar (Q) "Growing Things with Roots to the Earth" Ents being the greatest of this order. Yes, Tolkien has even classified his plants and animals into hierarchies.LOL!
Namárië,
Iarwain
* * *
From: LovesBeren Sent: 1/28/2003 9:37 PM
Iawain Ben-adar,
I was amusing myself ...
If treebeard said that "Ents are more like Elves: less interested in themselves than Men are, and better at getting inside other things. And yet again Ents are more like Men, more changeable than Elves are, and quicker at taking the colour of the outside, you might say."
The thread was discussing The Hourns "nature," but I was a bit perplexed, so I threw out a nonsense response...
sorry... but you did answer my question.
Luthien (Sarah)