Post by Stormrider on Jan 23, 2009 7:17:48 GMT -6
From: Lord_Algamesh (Original Message) Sent: 11/30/2002 12:19 AM
In our Week Four reading, we are given much information concerning the ancient seeing stones. We learn that they are the work of the Noldor and that their origin dates back to the First Age. It is quite possible that Feanor crafted them personally.
We also learn that the Palantiri are referred to as the "Lost Seeing Stones of Numenor". This is very curious because it infers that possession of the Stones passed from Elf to Man at some point in the Second Age. We are left completely in the dark as to the arrangements of this change of ownership. Does anyone have any further information about this particular topic?
The Noldor were nortoriously known for their possessive nature concerning their works. Solving this riddle should be quite educational for us all. Your contributions, factual or deductive, on this subject are very anticipated!
* * *
From: Storrmrider Sent: 12/1/2002 1:07 PM
Here is a little tidbit I dug up off the older threads. I had posted it sometime back and thought it would fit here:
The Palantiri, or Seeing Stones, were made by Feanor in Aman (Sil. p.64). They ended up being a gift of the Eldar to Amandil, father or Elendil, for the comfort of the Faithful of Numenor in their dark days. The Exiles from Numenor brought the Seven Stones with them along with the White Tree which was a descendent of Nimloth the Fair also a descendent of the Tree of Tirion. Elendil was the one who inherited them (Sil. p. 292) and he took three of the stones and placed one in the tower of Elostirion on Emyn Beraid, one at Amon Sul (Weathertop), and one at Annuminas. His two sons each took two stones with them and they were placed at Minas Ithil, Minas Anor (Minas Tirith), Orthanc, and Osgiliath. Seven Stones that made the journey overseas to Middle Earth.
1. Ithil-stone is a minor stone about one foot in diameter. It was lost in 2002 and was assumed destroyed by its defenders before Minas Ithil was captured and sacked (although some kept in mind that it was possible it had been seized by and was in the hands of Sauron).
2. Anor-stone another minor stone was located in Minas Anor or Minas Tirith. It was a closely guarded secret and only accessible to the Ruling Steward and never used by them except by Denethor II. The Stewards believed Sauron had the Ithil-stone and were not willing to use it. Denethor II succeeded to the Stewardship in 2984 when he was 54 yrs. old and began using it then.
3. Orthanc-stone another minor stone was located in the Ring of Isengard. Orthanc became deserted and the stone was either forgotten or assumed lost. When Beren the Steward of Gondor gave the keys to Orthanc to Sauruman in 2759, he either never even thought about the stone or assumed it would be in good hands with Sauruman. Sauruman seized Isengard as his own in 2953.
4. The Stone at Osgiliath was a major stone and was very large (too large for one man to lift or move). It was lost in the waters of the Anduin in 1437 during the Civil War of the Kin-Strife.
5. The Stone at Amon Sul was a major stone and the 6. Stone at Annuminas a minor stone were lost by Arvedui the Last King of Arthedain when his ship was wrecked and he drowned in the Bay of Forochel.
7. The Elendil-Stone was located in the tower of Elostirion on Emyn Beraid and it had special properties. It was guarded by Cirdan and the Elves of Lindon. (I could not find any mention of how it was lost) It looked out to the sea and was used to see Eressea and the Tower of Avallone where the Master Stone abides (this is the only information we have about this Master Stone. (Sil. p. 292, and Unfinished Tales: of Numenor and Middle Earth p. 414)
Every mention in all the books I have says there are Seven Seeing Stones, or Seven Palantiri, but what is the Master Stone? It stayed at Tol Eressea and did not come to Middle Earth. It seems that the mention of the Seeing Stones refers only to those that came to Middle Earth.
There is a whole chapter in Unfinished Tales: of Numenor and Middle-Earth regarding the Palantiri pp. 403-415. Definitions in both The Silmarillion (p. 346) and Unfinished Tales (p. 460) only refer to Seven Stones.
The Ithil-stone, Anor-Stone, and Orthanc-stone are the only stones that survived. The other four were lost.
Olórië had added a couple of comments of her own to my old thread and I respectfully post them here:
The Stone of Elostirion in the Tower Hills was taken back to Aman on the Ring-bearers' White Ship...
The Seeing-stones of Middle-earth were not the only palantíri to exist. Many remained with the Elves in Aman, including the so-called Master-stone held in the Tower of Avallónë on Tol Eressëa. Indeed, it was said that, before the stone was removed from the Tower Hills, it could be used to look along the Straight Road to the Undying Lands themselves.
* * *
From: Redha Sent: 12/3/2002 7:55 PM
Stormrider,
Thank you for digging this info up! Great stuff!
Redha
In our Week Four reading, we are given much information concerning the ancient seeing stones. We learn that they are the work of the Noldor and that their origin dates back to the First Age. It is quite possible that Feanor crafted them personally.
We also learn that the Palantiri are referred to as the "Lost Seeing Stones of Numenor". This is very curious because it infers that possession of the Stones passed from Elf to Man at some point in the Second Age. We are left completely in the dark as to the arrangements of this change of ownership. Does anyone have any further information about this particular topic?
The Noldor were nortoriously known for their possessive nature concerning their works. Solving this riddle should be quite educational for us all. Your contributions, factual or deductive, on this subject are very anticipated!
* * *
From: Storrmrider Sent: 12/1/2002 1:07 PM
Here is a little tidbit I dug up off the older threads. I had posted it sometime back and thought it would fit here:
The Palantiri, or Seeing Stones, were made by Feanor in Aman (Sil. p.64). They ended up being a gift of the Eldar to Amandil, father or Elendil, for the comfort of the Faithful of Numenor in their dark days. The Exiles from Numenor brought the Seven Stones with them along with the White Tree which was a descendent of Nimloth the Fair also a descendent of the Tree of Tirion. Elendil was the one who inherited them (Sil. p. 292) and he took three of the stones and placed one in the tower of Elostirion on Emyn Beraid, one at Amon Sul (Weathertop), and one at Annuminas. His two sons each took two stones with them and they were placed at Minas Ithil, Minas Anor (Minas Tirith), Orthanc, and Osgiliath. Seven Stones that made the journey overseas to Middle Earth.
1. Ithil-stone is a minor stone about one foot in diameter. It was lost in 2002 and was assumed destroyed by its defenders before Minas Ithil was captured and sacked (although some kept in mind that it was possible it had been seized by and was in the hands of Sauron).
2. Anor-stone another minor stone was located in Minas Anor or Minas Tirith. It was a closely guarded secret and only accessible to the Ruling Steward and never used by them except by Denethor II. The Stewards believed Sauron had the Ithil-stone and were not willing to use it. Denethor II succeeded to the Stewardship in 2984 when he was 54 yrs. old and began using it then.
3. Orthanc-stone another minor stone was located in the Ring of Isengard. Orthanc became deserted and the stone was either forgotten or assumed lost. When Beren the Steward of Gondor gave the keys to Orthanc to Sauruman in 2759, he either never even thought about the stone or assumed it would be in good hands with Sauruman. Sauruman seized Isengard as his own in 2953.
4. The Stone at Osgiliath was a major stone and was very large (too large for one man to lift or move). It was lost in the waters of the Anduin in 1437 during the Civil War of the Kin-Strife.
5. The Stone at Amon Sul was a major stone and the 6. Stone at Annuminas a minor stone were lost by Arvedui the Last King of Arthedain when his ship was wrecked and he drowned in the Bay of Forochel.
7. The Elendil-Stone was located in the tower of Elostirion on Emyn Beraid and it had special properties. It was guarded by Cirdan and the Elves of Lindon. (I could not find any mention of how it was lost) It looked out to the sea and was used to see Eressea and the Tower of Avallone where the Master Stone abides (this is the only information we have about this Master Stone. (Sil. p. 292, and Unfinished Tales: of Numenor and Middle Earth p. 414)
Every mention in all the books I have says there are Seven Seeing Stones, or Seven Palantiri, but what is the Master Stone? It stayed at Tol Eressea and did not come to Middle Earth. It seems that the mention of the Seeing Stones refers only to those that came to Middle Earth.
There is a whole chapter in Unfinished Tales: of Numenor and Middle-Earth regarding the Palantiri pp. 403-415. Definitions in both The Silmarillion (p. 346) and Unfinished Tales (p. 460) only refer to Seven Stones.
The Ithil-stone, Anor-Stone, and Orthanc-stone are the only stones that survived. The other four were lost.
Olórië had added a couple of comments of her own to my old thread and I respectfully post them here:
The Stone of Elostirion in the Tower Hills was taken back to Aman on the Ring-bearers' White Ship...
The Seeing-stones of Middle-earth were not the only palantíri to exist. Many remained with the Elves in Aman, including the so-called Master-stone held in the Tower of Avallónë on Tol Eressëa. Indeed, it was said that, before the stone was removed from the Tower Hills, it could be used to look along the Straight Road to the Undying Lands themselves.
* * *
From: Redha Sent: 12/3/2002 7:55 PM
Stormrider,
Thank you for digging this info up! Great stuff!
Redha